Graham Hancock on the Rogan Experience

[9eagle9]

That's the honest end of it. What you described is basically what any healing process feels like with alchemical help or without it. You come out the otherside better for it but the experience itself will be painful. Those who get the most benefit from plants describe painful purging. You may have had an altered state of consciousness but it wasn't that high feeling like you had a few pints.

The high feeling me thinks is from the ego being satiated and self gratified for a time. The addiction aspect is the ego requiring that self gratification over and over. Like any other addiction.

The point is to come out the other side being able to feel 'high' without any chemical assistance.

At least the ground work and potential for that is brought to the surface instead of being buried under dense pain. I extraordinarily doubt any plant out there causes a state of insta-enlightenment but if you experience healing one has become a better vessel for enlightenment to occur.

Insta-enlightenment is a construct of the ego, the same sort of mechanism that caused all the furor over 12/2012 where everyone thought they'd wake up on 12/22/12 in a state of perfection. A lot of people were addicted to that idea for sure.

[manny]

those who get the most benefit from plants describe painful purging.

to me that was a purging of the self,all the addictions and conditioning.it is a important part of the process.

The high feeling me thinks is from the ego being satiated and self gratified for a time.

it,s not about being high!but about seeing and knowing and learning.
when you have felt christ spirit(without any substances)there is no any high that can compensate that bliss.even though it was short lived.

Insta-enlightenment is a construct of the ego

for some people it happens naturally,for others the pulling can be frustrating,a slow process without a clue of what is going on.

insta-enlightenmentnice choice of words.

a friend told me last night we are we are suppose to be.

so maybe some people need a kickstart to get themselves developing.

not only that Ayahuasca ,iboga and plant medicine can cure addictions naturally and give a person creative insight.

alcohol , cigarettes and heroin cause even more damage and cost the goverment millions in treating people.

but big pharma are making money out of goverment with their none capable treatments ,that keeps people dependant on their sources.

i do believe that this planet has the resources to cure any ill,s on this planet apart from the man made one,s.

but the amazon is fading away.

so maybe like graham said if you cannot go to the amazon,the amazon will find you.

[9eagle9]

alcohol , cigarettes and heroin cause even more damage and cost the goverment millions in treating people.

That's a pretty important point in relation to this thread and to addiction. I'm not well versed in the meta properties of opium/ opiates although I know they exist, but alcohol and tobacco were once used in a proscribed way to facilitate healing. And like Ayahusca they were abused packaged and peddled for abuse and to be come addictive elements rather than healing elements. Pipe smoking is a thoughtful activity./ and that is typically how tobacco was once taken--by a pipe. Cigarette smoking in its little pre packaged instant non thoughtful delivery tube is a instant self gratification abuse sort of thing.

In healing ceremonies tobacco was used (and still is used in some indigenous cultures) to help one process emotions. Smoking habit/ tobacco abuse usually results from an inability to process emotions. That's why so many people take up the habit in early adulthood because they've not been encouraged to process emotions.

Alcohol was used to lift emotions (that otherwise could not be brought to the surface) in a proscribed way with a facilitator. We've all seen the drinky weeper or rage monster, the people who are otherwise 'normal' but you get a few drinks in them and that trauma is lifted to the surface and they either become enraged and combative or sit around and cry until they sober up. You can't reason with them because the emotional body can't be reasoned with, you just have to wait for all the crap to settle again. If one allowed them to go off somewhere and have a acceptable fit of temper safely without harming anyone or bawl their eyes it would be vastly more helpful than attempting to distract them or contain them.

That's why the Irish always had big drunken wakes, to help bring grief to the surface to be processed. It was more for the living than the dead.

[Adam Bomm]

That's why the Irish always had big drunken wakes, to help bring grief to the surface to be processed. It was more for the living than the dead.

No doubt, that's true...the Hispanic culture is very much the same in that regard.

Speaking of weepy drunks...Many years ago when i was in a pretty much drunken stupor, a life-long friend came out and sorta woke me up and said I needed to come inside the house. I snapped out of it and realized that i had been sitting behind my steering wheel crying. The problem was I never remembered or even knew why. I'm sure it must have been something traumatic in my life but i was left with literally no clue. Just a shrug of the shoulders.

I did have a therapist tell me onetime that i needed to learn to cry. I didn't tell him that i was actually pretty good at it, I just didn't do it very often. One would need to ask how often is often enough?

On that note, I'm about to lose an online Chess game that i thought i was winning. 2nd time in a row...now that's something to cry about.

[Adam Bomm]

THE PANAS-X
Manual for the Positive and Negative Affect
© Copyright 1994, David Watson and Lee Anna Clark
The University of Iowa

Negative Affect (NA) is a general dimension of subjective distress and unpleasurable engagement that subsumes a variety of aversive mood states, including anger, contempt, disgust, guilt, fear, and nervousness. Low negative affect is characterised by a state of calmness and serenity.

Watson and Clark (1984) defined negative affectivity as a mood-dispositional dimension that reflects pervasive individual differences in negative emotionality and self-concept.
Negative affectivity represents an affective state dimension. Tellegen (1985) has demonstrated that individuals differ in negative emotional reactivity. Trait negative affectivity roughly corresponds to the dominant personality factor of anxiety/neuroticism within the Big Five personality traits. Research shows that negative affectivity relates to different classes of variables: Self-reported stress and (poor) coping, health complaints, and frequency of unpleasant events.

On the basis of their extensive review of the literature, Watson and Clark concluded that people who express high negative affectivity view themselves and a variety of aspects of the world around them in generally negative terms. Negative affectivity may influence the relationships between variables in organizational research.

In the seminal work on negative affect arousal and white noise by Stanley S. Seidner, the findings from the study support the existence of a negative affect arousal mechanism through observations regarding the devaluation of speakers from other ethnic origins. Negative affectivity is strongly related to life satisfaction. Individuals high in negative affect will exhibit, on average, higher levels of distress, anxiety, and dissatisfaction, and tend to focus on the unpleasant aspects of themselves, the world, the future, and other people. In fact, the content similarities between these affective traits and life satisfaction have led some researchers to view both PA/NA and life satisfaction as specific indicators of the broader construct of subjective well-being.

- wikipedia -