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Thread: Graham Hancock on the Rogan Experience

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    Re: Graham Hancock on the Rogan Experience

    Quote Originally Posted by jasonzwsa View Post
    Except I do not believe she listened to the 3hours. That is my problem with her post because it might prevent people from listening to it (and get some interesting info) by labeling him as an addict. Sorry but if you have ever taken Ayahuasca you will know it is not a crutch or an addiction. So personal attack to him in my books deserves a personal attack from me (because after all it is my OP). IMO opinion you cannot criticize psychedelics if you have not tried them.

    Fair enough, Jason, she may not have listened to the 3 hours but only she can answer that but as OP if you are interested in a discussion on the topic presented in the video, you can facilitate that by opening up the discussion. It is not helpful to resort to a personal attack as that shuts down discussion, rather than aids it.

    When it gets personal it misses the point of the topic which is why we try to encourage our discussion on this forum not to go down that route....and when that happens it's enough to drive me to take Ayahausca :lol:


    Quote Originally Posted by jasonzwsa View Post
    IMO opinion you cannot criticize psychedelics if you have not tried them.
    I don't know that she was criticising psychedelics, rather criticising their use as psychological dependency.

    So perhaps a good way for this to move on is if Eagle can explain her experience or non-experience with these drug and whether or not she advises against their use.

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    Re: Graham Hancock on the Rogan Experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenci View Post
    I don't know that she was criticising psychedelics, rather criticising their use as psychological dependency.
    Graham never mentioned being psychologically dependant on Ayahausca but rather on weed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenci View Post
    but as OP if you are interested in a discussion on the topic presented in the video, you can facilitate that by opening up the discussion.
    Which I did with the other post I made.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenci View Post
    It is not helpful to resort to a personal attack as that shuts down discussion, rather than aids it.
    I beg to differ because now the topic is opening up and a discussion is happening.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jenci View Post
    When it gets personal it misses the point of the topic which is why we try to encourage our discussion on this forum not to go down that route
    Once again I defend the OP because I felt the personal attack on Graham was out of line and sway the discussion away from the real message of the OP. This is much more of a derailment of the topic than my defence of Graham.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jenci View Post
    I don't know that she was criticising psychedelics, rather criticising their use as psychological dependency.
    I think both of you are crticising it to be honest. There are many paths to expanded conciousness and IMO psychedelics is one of them. And no it is far away from alcohol.


    So what is your opinion on psychedelics Jenci ?
    Last edited by jasonzwsa; 05-27-2013 at 02:53 AM.

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    Re: Graham Hancock on the Rogan Experience

    Quote Originally Posted by jasonzwsa View Post
    I think both of you are crticising it to be honest. There are many paths to expanded conciousness and IMO psychedelics is one of them. And no it is far away from alcohol.


    So what is your opinion on psychedelics Jenci ?

    No I wasn't criticising it. I said

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenci View Post
    As for Ayahausca, not that I have taken it but my understanding is that it can be very useful in getting the person to understand that their existence is not limited to this body/reality.

    "Not that I have taken it" is me declaring that I hadn't before I made comment on it and "it can be very useful" is not criticising it. In the rest of that sentence I am recognising that it can be a path to understanding that in this body we have a very limited understanding of how we exist. In other words we exist outside of this body/reality and we are multi-dimensional rather than limited to this 3D experience.


    If Ayahausca can show people that, then that is great. If it can also facilitate healing of attachments in this 3D existence, then that is great too.

    My issue with Hancock is quite a general one really with people who talk about spiritual experiences and put them in the context of the illusion and claim that it is real (and yes I have heard Hancock claim this in a long interview I listened to a couple of months ago)

    This is a very common thing to hear but I have come to the conclusion that people will not be ready to hear that until they have explored all the experiences which manifest in consciousness and find they are still seeking something which remains outside their grasp.

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    Re: Graham Hancock on the Rogan Experience

    Quote Originally Posted by jasonzwsa View Post
    IMO opinion you cannot criticize psychedelics if you have not tried them.
    I have never heard a more dangerous statement. I do not encourage or appreciate this vein. I do not care how brilliant a person is or how amazing their contribution is to society, the use of a crutch to get there is inappropriate. Many people have had their self actualization experiences without additives to their being. That avenue to awareness is a purer form of knowledge.

    Hancock has admitted to his addictive nature. I will not let that be disregarded, IMO, as to how it colors his information. How would anyone know if the information is the drugs talking or a bonifide experience of information. Slick words do not make it correct or acceptable. And yes I watched the whole program.

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    Re: Graham Hancock on the Rogan Experience

    Nothing dangerous at all in my statement. Just like celibate critising sex.

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    Re: Graham Hancock on the Rogan Experience

    Quote Originally Posted by followthebubbles View Post
    I do not encourage or appreciate this vein. I do not care how brilliant a person is or how amazing their contribution is to society, the use of a crutch to get there is inappropriate.
    Good for you


    Quote Originally Posted by followthebubbles View Post
    Many people have had their self actualization experiences without additives to their being.
    Never been argued against in this OP.


    Quote Originally Posted by followthebubbles View Post
    Hancock has admitted to his addictive nature.
    Yes I find his honesty very refreshing


    Quote Originally Posted by followthebubbles View Post
    I will not let that be disregarded, IMO, as to how it colors his information.
    Apart from psychedilics being very colourful, please elaborate on what you are saying ?


    Quote Originally Posted by followthebubbles View Post
    Slick words do not make it correct or acceptable.
    Acceptable is personal based. Everyone to their own. So how about expanded on the discussion rather than critising with your own views on psychedelics..


    IMO I would recommend psychedelics to someone if I was sure that the set and setting was appropriate and things are prepared correctly.

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    Re: Graham Hancock on the Rogan Experience

    Yes Critical. Rightfully so. And I have the authority to criticize it and that's totally beyond your means to influence, Jason.

    Peddling plant helpers to all and sundry abroad is called prostitution. He, like most addicts in his narcissism (or his entities narcissism, I should say, one notes where he picked up a few more along the way) need the whole world out there partaking in the addiction to validate the faulty choices he's making.

    Sorry but if you have ever taken Ayahuasca you will know it is not a crutch or an addiction.

    Yes I've initiated a relationship with it (taking it is prostituting it by the way, ) and I can very well see how it can be a crutch and an addiction. The plant doesn't determine the addiction, the addict does by 'using' it. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. That is why some people get addicted to plant spirit helpers and some don't. Some people can drink and others can't.

    That's why addicts are called 'users'. Most addicts are in behavior and demeanor. Just like distilled spirits were corrupted and prostituted. And Salvia Divinorium. And Jimson Weed. Adn Marijuana. And Peyote. I've had lots of plant helper rites with others, and when I see the addiction bug cropping up they are given no more by my hand until they start doing their own work instead of transferring their co-dependency and developing yet another parasitical relationship. That is addiction behaviors and abuse goes hand in hand with addiction. Hancock has had several inner demons to confront, he chose to view them as spirit guides. Just another co dependent making more agreement and contracts with what ailed him in the first place. He first used Marijuana to avoid it, then use he used Ayahuasca

    So, no, not so much that he 'took' the plant spirit helper, its what he did while asking for its assistance. He abused its essential (essence) nature. Using it for a means other than what its essential nature allows.

    It takes you into another illusionary world. This world can be used to id your issues or ....like Hancock did, reinforce the notion that the illusionary world shown is reality. It's called making an agreement, a contract, and cording into artificial constructs. Just more 'their' mind ****. I see people do it with food, with alcohol.,to their own emotional state ,with their relationships. They think they are special in their addiction. You'd have to; most of the world is co-dependent all them elbowing each other out of the way to be 'special'.

    It is unfortunate that Graham's shamans didn't support him in this matter, but I also know that not everyone who sloshes about a pail of tea is a shaman. Graham in his addiction I'm sure couldn't tell an authentic shaman from a bag of groceries. However neither do I know that the shaman was very straightforward in his rites. Shamanic people can be very naive and truly believe that people want to help themselves instead of use them and their plant spirit helpers as another means to feed the parasites.

    Hancock speaks as if it is a title with a certain criteria to be filled. Many shamans do use plant spirit helpers, not necessarily euthogenic ones; very adept shamans know its not strictly necessary. Because the shamanic self is actually a state of being that can be moved in and out of sans the use of any external influence.

    Not so much because I care about people in the present, but I do know that in the long humanity (including myself ) will be better served by not allowing toddling lightworkers to take their first baby steps to enlightenment by corrupting all that is sacred. I will keep what is sacred sacred and if that means being critical then that's what I will do . It is my highest purpose in life to keep what is sacred, sacred. There are future generations and a condition of a planet that we live on to take into consideration at all if we have the ability to see beyond our own self interests.

    I would no more stand around and listen to some man who 'thinks' he knows something, continue to corrupt what is sacred than I would stand around and let an animal be abused. If addicts kept their addiction to their-selves, they, like animal abusers would not need my boot up their arse. Not that the abuser needs my boot there, but the plant or animal does.


    While I am sure that Hancock has lots of interesting non codependent information to impart, this isn't one of them. That is called using discernment. Hancock would be better served by fulling explore the concept of discernment when he has healed himself enough to be able to utilize it as means of enlightenment.

    And it's very interesting to note YOUR emotional investment in this concept, Jason. If Hancock would like to debate this privately with me I'm sure you can let him know where to find me if you are so terribly concerned with his reputation. It would after all make more of a statement than feebly attempting to launch a personal assault on me which you are quite incapable of doing.
    Last edited by 9eagle9; 05-27-2013 at 08:12 AM.

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    Re: Graham Hancock on the Rogan Experience

    Quote Originally Posted by 9eagle9 View Post
    It is unfortunate that Graham's shamans didn't support him in this matter
    But I bet they took his money. There is more to the plant kingdom than getting high. The last vid I watched this morning was over an hour and all he did was talk about the experience of getting high and learning to love himself, along with alot of art work. And what else? What else did you learn down there besides this drug? Love yourself - that's all? No other far reaching existential connection. Hmmm...sounds like an addict to me.

    I would think that the true shaman in Brazil would have alot more to teach and I don't think the jumping off point is this drug - to outsiders. Interesting that he talks about it's legality in the USA. Interesting that this is all he talks about lately.

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    Re: Graham Hancock on the Rogan Experience

    IMO I would recommend psychedelics to someone if I was sure that the set and setting was appropriate and things are prepared correctly.

    And do you have the qualifications, insight and experience that is developed over decades to make this recommendation? That you clearly understand the nature and pathways and origins of what is ailing the person in the first place as an invidual?. And are you willing to sit with someone and explain the nature of what they are experiencing when they cough their lungs up into bucket, when the emotional blockage descends in manifestation into the physical world?

    Personally I suggest that people should light themselves on fire. After all I know what a lighter is and actually used one a couple of occasions. I don't know the essential properties of fire, but I do know it's that orange **** that comes out when I flick my Bic.
    Last edited by 9eagle9; 05-27-2013 at 08:21 AM.

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    Re: Graham Hancock on the Rogan Experience

    Yes well its easy to love yourself when you are high. Loving yourself sober is a bit more difficult. The fact he's talking about legality speaks volumes to me as well. One who concerned with man's law instead of spiritual laws. He's disregarded the latter, and is concerning himself with the former. What have we learned here of our essential nature. Not much.


    Quote Originally Posted by followthebubbles View Post
    But I bet they took his money. There is more to the plant kingdom than getting high. The last vid I watched this morning was over an hour and all he did was talk about the experience of getting high and learning to love himself, along with alot of art work. And what else? What else did you learn down there besides this drug? Love yourself - that's all? No other far reaching existential connection. Hmmm...sounds like an addict to me.

    I would think that the true shaman in Brazil would have alot more to teach and I don't think the jumping off point is this drug - to outsiders. Interesting that he talks about it's legality in the USA. Interesting that this is all he talks about lately.

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