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    A humble student in being Human

    As a Human being, and with all that is being Human, I am simply and truthfully a humble student in every aspect of being Human.

    As a Father, Grandfather, Brother, Son, Partner, friend and mentor, I am still a humble student.

    As a Musician of 35 years, practiced, studied, performer and teacher, I am still a humble student.

    As a cook turned Chef, since age 9, practiced, studied and created, I am still a humble student.

    As a contemplating Philosopher for 35 years, including History, the Science's, Theology, Cosmology, and all the big questions spanning every aspect my brain and being has thought about, all that I have read, observed, viewed and experienced, I am still a humble student.

    As an observer, an experienced participant, with a seemingly reasonable understanding of the Human condition, in all it's paradoxical forms, I am still a humble student.

    As an I, a self, a being, a connected participant with all I share this life with, past, present and future, I am and will continue to be a humbled student.

    At times I 'think' I understand plenty, I have learnt much, I have experienced most aspects of a Human life within my environmental structure, yet truthfully, I understand very little, verging on nothing.

    As a Human being, I remain ignorant and humbled with being Human.

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    Re: A humble student in being Human

    As a general thing I really don't get (well maybe I do) why people worship humbleness. To recognize one's own limitations, ignorance, pitfalls, etc. is one thing and that is healthy.

    But to be apologetic for knowing **** can lead to stagnation. Humbleness is just the opposite extreme of being highly narcissistic, you could say the former can lead to a kind of masochism while the latter expresses a degree of sadism.

    A more healthy approach is to recognize one's own abilities and one's own ignorance without being opressed by either humbleness or narcissim. That implies being OK with knowing **** and being OK with ignoring stuff.

    Social conditioning sends mixed signals so you get people with a serious cognitive dissonance. They want someone who knows stuff, but they also want it to be expressed in a way which is apologetic because... well the audience could get hurt because the speaker happens to have knowledge on something and the audience is ignorant about that something .... and yet they also want someone who isn't apologetic, who makes no excuses, with no self imposed limitations because being humble is a sign of weakness and people love their alpha people.

    This is Orwell's double speak and double think. You are not supposed to find serenity by accepting your skills and your ignorance, you are supposed to hate knowledge because it offends other people and you are not perceived as being nice, you are supposed to hate humbleness because it is a sign of weakness and you won't be perceived as worthy.

    At the same time you are encouraged to pursue humbleness and confidence/narcissism. Then we wonder why we have such a messed up world.

    As for me, I'm not humbled with being human, why should anyone be? But I do find fascination in the potential within humans. I even find ignorance marvellous because ignorance is potential waiting to be actualized, Ignorance is to be transmuted into knowledge.

    Ignorance leads to the struggle of adding meaning to the world. Such conflict has the potential to create amazing **** and amazing f.uck ups. Ignorance is a perfect companion to knowledge because it can be used as a counterbalance to knowledge in the "hope" of not becoming too enamoured with one's own knowledge.

    The problem has never been ignorance itself, in fact that's a kind of blessing which gives room to imrpove upon ourselves. The problem is toxic emotional security some people find in ignorance. Humbleness invites mediocrity because it excludes healthy conflict (not a morbid one) which is utterly necessary for progress.

    Even biological evoltion is a constant struggle between the useful and the outdated to give birth to a higher synthesis. Without this healthy conflict; evolution (in all of its aspects) becomes an impossibility.

    I say f.uck humbleness and fu.ck narcissism, I say strive to find the neutral point. Not an easy task because it leads to inner conflict, it leads to episodes of humbleness and narcissism, but that conflict creates a sort of balance, it has the potential to create a strong inner center. This is the Hermetic Dialectic in action.

    A humble person learns how to be nice to others while the wise learn when to be kind to others. I'll take a kind person over a nice one any day of the week.

    And that's what I've got to say about that.
    Last edited by Reaver; 06-01-2013 at 10:29 PM. Reason: grammar
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    Re: A humble student in being Human

    Quote Originally Posted by Reaver View Post
    Humbleness is just the opposite extreme of being highly narcissistic
    Maybe but is it really? One being narcissistic enjoys his ego and does everything to show to the world how important he is. What is the difference in being humble if that becomes my thing to brag about and indulge in 'how humble I am'? From my point of view they are just two different expressions of the same thing with same motives in the background.

    Pod, this has absolutely nothing to do with any kind of attack on you, to be clear. It would be great if you can closely analyze why do you prefer humbleness so much: Is telling to others how humble you are actually humbleness? Do you enjoy being humble and why? Thanks.

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    Re: A humble student in being Human

    Quote Originally Posted by Reaver View Post
    A more healthy approach is to recognize one's own abilities and one's own ignorance without being opressed by either humbleness or narcissim. That implies being OK with knowing **** and being OK with ignoring stuff.
    You put a lot in that post Reav's and I think you way over analyzed it's meaning.

    (Humbleness referred to in the OP is an acknowledgment that with all I have learned, achieved and participated in, I am left humbled at how little I do know, not a humbling in the meek, lower self or apologetic sense).

    At almost 50, a life filled with experience, as written in OP, I have a very healthy acknowledgment of my abilities and ignorance. Neither oppressive or narcissistic but a humbleness and ignorance that all relays back to the big questions...I know nothing, i know **** when it comes to the big Q's...and i have spent over 35 yrs looking at every conceivable possibility, plausibility and even the probable...as for truth tho...I know **** and am humbled by my ignorance with such....particularly due to the fact I can think and entertain the 'meaning of everything'

    As for the everyday existence, as written above in op...I am still a humble student with all I do...others will say I am accomplished in certain areas but I am still the student.

    Put the whole 'life' in perspective and it all comes down to the fact that I am 'a humble student in being Human' and really know **** all.

    I guarantee you will understand more as to the meaning of the thread title with another 30 years under your belt with all that those years will offer to you, you will conclude similar, simply due to being Human but mostly due to being a sound thinking human. There is no other conclusion to arrive at if one uses rational and logic based on all the information compiled over one's lifetime.

    edit to add: for 88t8...your q's answered above.


    Pod, this has absolutely nothing to do with any kind of attack on you, to be clear. It would be great if you can closely analyze why do you prefer humbleness so much: Is telling to others how humble you are actually humbleness? Do you enjoy being humble and why? Thanks
    Last edited by Ross; 06-02-2013 at 01:16 AM.

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    Re: A humble student in being Human

    One can be greatly accomplished and still humble. Perhaps humility has acquired some negative connotations- through religious social conditioning maybe, to mean not worthy. Of the very great people I have come across in life they all shared this attitude of humbleness. Perhaps because true humbleness goes back to its original latin meaning humus - earth/on the ground; does humility bring grounding? I think it allows one, even in their greatness to realise there is still so much to acquire, still so much potential to Be.

    Quote Originally Posted by 8t88 View Post
    Is telling to others how humble you are actually humbleness?
    There is also false humbleness, but you can see it a mile off. Someone once said "why do you think you're so humble?- You're really not that great!"
    know thyself

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    Re: A humble student in being Human

    Everything, without exception, is an expression of the One (Source, Self, Spirit - whatever label you give it)

    Both perspectives - to be humble and to purse greater personal knowledge - are both equally valid. And that is not an Orwellian cognitive dissonance. That's the paradox which is life. The One creates the human experience to have a human experience not to have an enlightened One experience.

    It's the One itself which is driving the pursuit of knowledge in individuals and it is also the One which is discarding knowledge, in favour of the humility of realising they actually know nothing in the bigger picture.

    Both paths are led by the One and both go to the same place, even though they may not appear that way from the human experience perspective.


    While being humble is often used in spiritual practice to attain the realisation of the One, do not be surprised if the "Know-it-all", driven by intensely by personal gain reaches that realisation too, perhaps even quicker.

    No one is actually getting anything wrong, although from the human perspective, what others are doing can actually piss us off.


    And that's Ok. We are here to have that human experience. That too, is an expression of the One.

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    Re: A humble student in being Human

    Quote Originally Posted by Amer View Post

    Quote Originally Posted by 8t88
    Is telling to others how humble you are actually humbleness?
    There is also false humbleness, but you can see it a mile off. Someone once said "why do you think you're so humble?- You're really not that great!"

    I understood what it was to be humble when I surrendered in life - I'd learned that I didn't know what was good for me and there was a letting go of my knowledge and control and seeing that there was a much bigger picture which I was not able to understand.

    That surrender produced a remarkable transformation in me and it became very clear how powerful that humbleness/humility was and it naturally followed that I tried to act with humbleness.

    What I couldn't see at the time is that a shift had occurred. The humbleness of "letting go" because I didn't know it all, didn't know what was best for me, had now become me actively being humble which was the opposite of "letting go", it was a "grasping on" to the idea that I know knew that being humble was exactly what was best for me.

    It took time for me to see the hubris in my humbleness.

    The difference is now that the "letting go" is a more real letting go in that the One/Spirit is free to manifest through me either being humble or being arrogant. Either way I get the opportunity to learn. In fact, those moments when I have been the most arrogant, painfully so at times, have provided me with great insight into what is really going on.


    The greatest clarity comes when the dirty window gets cleaned of all that which obscures the view. When I was actively trying to be humble, far from clearing the window, I had actually added another layer which obscured it.

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    Re: A humble student in being Human

    Quote Originally Posted by Reaver View Post
    As a general thing I really don't get (well maybe I do) why people worship humbleness. To recognize one's own limitations, ignorance, pitfalls, etc. is one thing and that is healthy.
    Yes this is how I understand it as well. I am naive, many aspects I still need to learn. This makes me thirsty for new information, new learning, it does not make me feel small but encourages me to reach, upward to more spiritual intactness. Humility has too much of a religious control rather than spiritual enlightenment - the old bless me father for I have sinned. Humbleness can express I am the best that I can be. Rather, would not one want to defer to the higher learning in order to achieve this level for ones self? How about being ok that one doesn't know all the **** but is open to the experience and not put a judgement on it.

    In the state that we live in, stupidity is encouraged even a goal to obtain - "there goes Bubbles using her three syllable words again" I would be told - in other words keep it dumbed down so that we all don't have to work so hard and we are all on the lowest possible level. That is not humble that is dead. Don't make me work to relate to you.

    I find the person(s) that guides me to the betterment of my emotional and spiritual being much more satisfying and uplifting than the person that tries to instill group think to my psyche, keep me humble. I am centrally responsible for my development but I am the conglomeration of those around me and I chose to study those that give me the most experience for me to decide from. And I exalt these people that put this knowledge on my path.

    Pod this is also not an attack, but my perspective. I am over 50. I embrace and relish the knowledge that I have and the people that I am constantly being exposed to in giving me my shape. I see humbleness as looking down and enlightenment as looking up, asking for more, receptive. It may be semantics but I feel I would want a more positive spin on my being.

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    Re: A humble student in being Human

    It makes good pie~

    Another control module, making one's innate sense of unworthiness, lack of self value, into a virtue.

    The only way the victim can be a hero.

    Another religious psychological leverage. People have been programmed for eons that they are a humility beings, worthy of only humiliation. And that's why we've seen down through the centuries, more and more unworthy heaped on our heads. Because we accept it. We've even turned it into a virtue ' To always be humilated.' Low to the ground, unworthy. At some point that got confused with Piety. Humble Pie-ty. People can be narcissists in their humility. "Look how humble I am. I am more unworthy than everyone, I have suffered more"

    In accepting this we've only asked for me. More lies to be told to us, more degrading circumstances, poverty, lack, loss of self.


    There's an expectation that one will be rewarded for humility. That is just buried religious programming right out of the Bible.

    It reminds me of the Irish commoners who were so beaten down by centuries of Anglo domination they assigned themselves values of 'them' as opposed to 'the quality'.

    All dormant religious programming, all leveraged to be a control module. Clashes with the inner urge 'to be powerful'

    Humility or Humble in a spiritual sense is just allowing Spirit or God to work through you without judging it. Or...don't judge God. Follow one's inner navigation rather than external ones.

    Never apologize for what you know, it was given to you to know for reason. To apologize for what you know is judging that which enabled you to know it.

    Don't worry someone will be along shortly to judge you for what you know. You will labeled an elitist for example.

    So its not even necessary for you to judge what you know, there is no reason to employ humble, some one will be along shortly to do it for you. Because they're slaves to it . We are a self policing beings. So if someone sees you not being humble they will come with the humility stick and try to beat you with it.

    And you get to stay out of the karma-dharma-drama game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reaver View Post
    As a general thing I really don't get (well maybe I do) why people worship humbleness. To recognize one's own limitations, ignorance, pitfalls, etc. is one thing and that is healthy.

    But to be apologetic for knowing **** can lead to stagnation. Humbleness is just the opposite extreme of being highly narcissistic, you could say the former can lead to a kind of masochism while the latter expresses a degree of sadism.

    A more healthy approach is to recognize one's own abilities and one's own ignorance without being opressed by either humbleness or narcissim. That implies being OK with knowing **** and being OK with ignoring stuff.

    Social conditioning sends mixed signals so you get people with a serious cognitive dissonance. They want someone who knows stuff, but they also want it to be expressed in a way which is apologetic because... well the audience could get hurt because the speaker happens to have knowledge on something and the audience is ignorant about that something .... and yet they also want someone who isn't apologetic, who makes no excuses, with no self imposed limitations because being humble is a sign of weakness and people love their alpha people.

    This is Orwell's double speak and double think. You are not supposed to find serenity by accepting your skills and your ignorance, you are supposed to hate knowledge because it offends other people and you are not perceived as being nice, you are supposed to hate humbleness because it is a sign of weakness and you won't be perceived as worthy.

    At the same time you are encouraged to pursue humbleness and confidence/narcissism. Then we wonder why we have such a messed up world.

    As for me, I'm not humbled with being human, why should anyone be? But I do find fascination in the potential within humans. I even find ignorance marvellous because ignorance is potential waiting to be actualized, Ignorance is to be transmuted into knowledge.

    Ignorance leads to the struggle of adding meaning to the world. Such conflict has the potential to create amazing **** and amazing f.uck ups. Ignorance is a perfect companion to knowledge because it can be used as a counterbalance to knowledge in the "hope" of not becoming too enamoured with one's own knowledge.

    The problem has never been ignorance itself, in fact that's a kind of blessing which gives room to imrpove upon ourselves. The problem is toxic emotional security some people find in ignorance. Humbleness invites mediocrity because it excludes healthy conflict (not a morbid one) which is utterly necessary for progress.

    Even biological evoltion is a constant struggle between the useful and the outdated to give birth to a higher synthesis. Without this healthy conflict; evolution (in all of its aspects) becomes an impossibility.

    I say f.uck humbleness and fu.ck narcissism, I say strive to find the neutral point. Not an easy task because it leads to inner conflict, it leads to episodes of humbleness and narcissism, but that conflict creates a sort of balance, it has the potential to create a strong inner center. This is the Hermetic Dialectic in action.

    A humble person learns how to be nice to others while the wise learn when to be kind to others. I'll take a kind person over a nice one any day of the week.

    And that's what I've got to say about that.
    Last edited by 9eagle9; 06-02-2013 at 11:10 AM.

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    Re: A humble student in being Human

    Then allow yourself 'to know.' instead of focusing on the virtues of 'not knowing'. We have the ability to know everything. But we can't if we don't flex it.

    Like Reaver said. Make no apologies for what you know if its TRUE knowing and not just some reactive program running.

    To not allow yourself to know, makes one stupid. Humiliation then would simply be an acceptance of self created stupidity. Like having a burst bladder because one didn't allow themselves to visit the bathroom. The only person who benefits from that is the doctor that sews you up again. It's senseless and only serves control modules.

    Instead of focusing on how little you knows, its very trans-formative to focus on what you do know.

    The responses you've gotten thus far are from people who do not shrink from what they know but share it. They neither judge it or venerate they simply accept it.

    If one feels awkward and stupid around knowing people its only a signal to how very little you 1) know about yourself 2) an indicator of how very little you think about yourself.

    Those are things that can be fixed so you can have YOUR knowing.

    The question here isn't about the virtues and venom of humility its about why you THINK you don't know fook all.



    Quote Originally Posted by pod View Post
    You put a lot in that post Reav's and I think you way over analyzed it's meaning.

    (Humbleness referred to in the OP is an acknowledgment that with all I have learned, achieved and participated in, I am left humbled at how little I do know, not a humbling in the meek, lower self or apologetic sense).

    At almost 50, a life filled with experience, as written in OP, I have a very healthy acknowledgment of my abilities and ignorance. Neither oppressive or narcissistic but a humbleness and ignorance that all relays back to the big questions...I know nothing, i know **** when it comes to the big Q's...and i have spent over 35 yrs looking at every conceivable possibility, plausibility and even the probable...as for truth tho...I know **** and am humbled by my ignorance with such....particularly due to the fact I can think and entertain the 'meaning of everything'

    As for the everyday existence, as written above in op...I am still a humble student with all I do...others will say I am accomplished in certain areas but I am still the student.

    Put the whole 'life' in perspective and it all comes down to the fact that I am 'a humble student in being Human' and really know **** all.

    I guarantee you will understand more as to the meaning of the thread title with another 30 years under your belt with all that those years will offer to you, you will conclude similar, simply due to being Human but mostly due to being a sound thinking human. There is no other conclusion to arrive at if one uses rational and logic based on all the information compiled over one's lifetime.

    edit to add: for 88t8...your q's answered above.

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