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Thread: When Sorry Becomes A Sorry Word

  1. #11
    Senior Member Jenci's Avatar
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    Re: When Sorry Becomes A Sorry Word

    Quote Originally Posted by followthebubbles View Post
    What we learn at home at our parents knee becomes superimposed on how we handle life. Teach the children well. My mother apologized for nothing, she was always right. When it was pointed out that she was way over the line, I remember the pinched face and the silence. She was going to admit nothing. It took a long time for me to learn to apologize in my life but it meant unlearning those excruciatingly bad habits of disrespect. Still not quite there .

    And yes it was the narcissism and arrogance that I would be referring to as well. Some individuals are just too big to admit maybe they were out of line.

    While some people are over apologetic, some are the complete opposite and will never apologise for anything, no matter how wrong they are. They will hold onto that position of being "right" with all their might, even if doing so, ruins their own life. I can think of people here with long-standing feuds with friends and family which becomes emotional baggage they carry around with them every day. Some will go to their deaths before they will even make that apology.

    You talk about teaching children. I think it is rare that the act of apology is taught properly, to be used when appropriately and sincerely but then really the issues surrounding apologies are intertwined with other unresolved emotional problems and unseen automatic conditioned behaviour, so I am not surprised, that something so simple, doesn't get addressed.

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  3. #12
    Senior Member Jenci's Avatar
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    Re: When Sorry Becomes A Sorry Word

    Quote Originally Posted by followthebubbles View Post
    I remember in a younger time asking a wiser friend why this other person we both knew was so angry all the time. Her response knocked me on my ass and made me realize that I am not the sun. She told me that the reason she looks angry may be b/c she is giving herself **** for something she messed up, that without verbalization and interaction with me, this expression could be for her own personal turmoil. Wow people have thoughts and lives that don't include me, earth shattering. That was over 30 years ago and I can still hear her tell me this like it was yesterday. Things I can not control.

    I have come across this too, people angry at me because of what they have done to me. I would guess the turmoil is the guilt they feel and their unresolved issues surrounding their mistake.

    I tried for a long time to make this situation better until I realised that their anger was not something I had control over.


    Quote Originally Posted by Augmented Ape View Post
    Well its also a tool of passive aggressives, to project guilt.

    But I am sorry (!) I am not here enough, its a very unique place indeed, I know of nowhere else with such Femme Savants.

    Deep respect !
    Thanks AA.

    I agree there's the passive/aggressive I have also seen it used overtly aggressive, such as "I'M SORRY!!!!"

    In other words, you've got your apology and I expect you to be grateful.

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    Senior Member Jenci's Avatar
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    Re: When Sorry Becomes A Sorry Word

    Quote Originally Posted by followthebubbles View Post
    It is true that for some reason an acceptance of the apology, or should I say recognition of the apology seems to mean that the problem is resolved, not so but the acceptance to the two words at least levels the field and healing can begin to the outrage that started it. Thank you also two powerful words.
    I agree that Thank you are also two powerful words. Just like people grow up not knowing how to use the words I'm sorry, we can see similar patterns with the words Thank you.

    It seems so simple doesn't it, someone gives you something and you say thank you. But how many of us grow up being taught not to accept things which are freely given.

    So you get a gift and say No, you shouldn't give me that. Then they say, Go on, take it and then the two parties do a dance around this giving and refusing. Eventually the gift may get accepted but the the receiver feels obliged to give something back in return and around the cycle goes again.

    I think we get taught that it is politeness and good manners not to accept gifts. Something so simple becomes incredibly complicated.

    Yet when something is freely given, a simple "thank you" can be a very powerful acceptance of a sincere gift.

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    Call me crazy but..... HURRITT ENYETO's Avatar
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    Re: When Sorry Becomes A Sorry Word

    Its a synchronism that this thread popped up for me. Only a few days ago i had a 'sorry' experience.

    I had been getting increasingly frustrated with a work colleague, that i perceived as speaking down to me all the time (ok i was mightily pissed off):lol: It had actually gotten to the point of me starting to dislike this person quite a bit, when finally last week he did it again in front of 5 other people. I had ran the various scenario's through my mind (like you do) of what would happen when i finally snapped, which i knew would inevitably happen sooner or later.

    Anyhow, he spoke to me again in this manner, and i said to him "how dare you speak to me like that, who do you think your talking to.'???' And almost immediately he said "I'm sorry" to which i responded 'its ok' (which took even me by surprise) lol, i had ran all these different potential scenarios through my mind so many times, that it took me totally by surprise, as this outcome hadn't even entered my mind, and it almost felt like a physical weight had been lifted from my shoulders, i cant speak for him obviously, but i'm pretty certain that he felt the same way. It turns out he has been dealing with some personal issues at home, and he had been 'bringing it to work' and taking it out on all the wrong people. I forgave him instantly, so yes your right Jenci, one little word 'sorry' can mean, and solve, a lot!



    Hurritt
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    Senior Member Jenci's Avatar
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    Re: When Sorry Becomes A Sorry Word

    Quote Originally Posted by HURRITT ENYETO View Post
    Its a synchronism that this thread popped up for me. Only a few days ago i had a 'sorry' experience.

    I had been getting increasingly frustrated with a work colleague, that i perceived as speaking down to me all the time (ok i was mightily pissed off):lol: It had actually gotten to the point of me starting to dislike this person quite a bit, when finally last week he did it again in front of 5 other people. I had ran the various scenario's through my mind (like you do) of what would happen when i finally snapped, which i knew would inevitably happen sooner or later.

    Anyhow, he spoke to me again in this manner, and i said to him "how dare you speak to me like that, who do you think your talking to.'???' And almost immediately he said "I'm sorry" to which i responded 'its ok' (which took even me by surprise) lol, i had ran all these different potential scenarios through my mind so many times, that it took me totally by surprise, as this outcome hadn't even entered my mind, and it almost felt like a physical weight had been lifted from my shoulders, i cant speak for him obviously, but i'm pretty certain that he felt the same way. It turns out he has been dealing with some personal issues at home, and he had been 'bringing it to work' and taking it out on all the wrong people. I forgave him instantly, so yes your right Jenci, one little word 'sorry' can mean, and solve, a lot!



    Hurritt

    Great story. When used appropriately, sorry can have a transforming and healing effect.

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    Re: When Sorry Becomes A Sorry Word

    Sometimes a person needs to apologize. It is not always about some deep seated "issue". This does not negate the need to take ownership that a person is in the wrong and needs to apologize. It can go the other way and a person can not see that they are wrong. Sometimes we need to live in the here and now and not analyze something to death and go off on a tangent. There is a time and place for an apology and not find an excuse regarding accepting responsibility.

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    Senior Member Jenci's Avatar
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    Re: When Sorry Becomes A Sorry Word

    Quote Originally Posted by followthebubbles View Post
    Sometimes a person needs to apologize. It is not always about some deep seated "issue". This does not negate the need to take ownership that a person is in the wrong and needs to apologize. It can go the other way and a person can not see that they are wrong. Sometimes we need to live in the here and now and not analyze something to death and go off on a tangent. There is a time and place for an apology and not find an excuse regarding accepting responsibility.
    Apologising when necessary is just impossible for some. People do what they have to do as a way of coping in life. Someone may get caught with their hands in the cookie jar and despite people saying that they have their hands in the cookie jar, they will swear blind they haven't and deflect the problem by creating a diversion about something else.

    It may seem like apologising for stealing the cookies is not really a big deal but this hanging onto this position of being "right" can be the primoridal survival instinct of the ego. To say "I'm sorry" would threaten the ego survival because it threatens what it has built its identity around - its world view and the sense of what "I" is in it.

    I often see people and see them just "surviving", clinging onto these positions of being right, like they are clinging on for dear life because to the ego they quite literally are.

    If they were to admit they had got it wrong, it would mean they would have to question the identity the ego self was built on and to do that would mean facing some things about them that they would really not want to. So the ego creates these blinkers which stop them from seeing what is going on and rather maintain a very fixed position of hanging on and heading in the direction of only things which don't threaten ideas that the ego has about itself.

    You can observe these patterns of behaviour all around and if you become sensitive to it, you can actually see the clinging on for dear life in their body language and energy. To see it, helps not to take it personally. It's not personal......just people doing what they need to do to keep going.


    As Elton says....



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    Senior Member Adam Bomm's Avatar
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    Re: When Sorry Becomes A Sorry Word

    I'm always apologizing...mostly because i feel sorry for the stupid b*sta*rds...it ain't really their fault, they just dumb. The one apology that will likely never come from me is to my ex...she doesn't need an apology, she needs a boot up her a**.


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    Re: When Sorry Becomes A Sorry Word

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenci View Post
    It may seem like apologising for stealing the cookies is not really a big deal but this hanging onto this position of being "right" can be the primoridal survival instinct of the ego. To say "I'm sorry" would threaten the ego survival because it threatens what it has built its identity around - its world view and the sense of what "I" is in it.
    You are a true word smith. This is not apologizing for the sake of it, but for an honest response. Sometimes it is not a big situation but grows monstrous because of the need to be right, remove pride, or even acknowledge that there are perhaps different feelings on the other side. And maybe it isn't about being right or wrong but acknowledging the other sides response. The bottom line is honest communication and not some socially engineered response.

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    Re: When Sorry Becomes A Sorry Word

    Interesting study which falls in line with what I posted in my previous post, that by not apologising it boosts the person's self esteem so there is a strong reason for people to behave like this.

    Of course this is mainstream thinking. It would be good if they took the idea of "self-esteem" apart. If you need to have your self-esteem boosted, then it is lacking and if it can be affected by someone else, then you will always be dependent on other people for your well-being or sense of self.




    Why sorry is the hardest word to say: How refusing to apologise 'boosts our self-esteem'

    Research found those who refused to apologise felt greater sense of power

    By DAMIEN GAYLE
    PUBLISHED: 18:34, 5 February 2013 | UPDATED: 10:14, 3 July 2013

    Sorry is the hardest word to say - and now experts have explained exactly why.

    While apologising can lessen feelings of guilt and help restore a wrongdoer's image, it seems declining to do so can have even more powerful psychological benefits.
    According to the new Australian study, refusing to apologise is good for our self-esteem and that is why uttering the 'S word' can prove so difficult.

    'I'm sorry': Lance Armstrong apologised in an interview with Oprah Winfrey for using drugs to take his Tour de France titles - but new research suggests he may have been better of if he didn't
    The word apology is derived from Greek apologia - meaning a defence or an explanation - and the issue of when to apologise is one that has always vexed humans.
    Plato's Apology, ostensibly the text of the speech his teacher, the great Greek philosopher Socrates, gave in his defence at his trial for corrupting the youth of Athens, maintains this classical meaning of the word.
    However, apology in the modern sense has come to mean an admission of wrongdoing, with none of the defensive implications of its etymological root.


    Elton John had a hit in 1976 with 'Sorry Seems To Be The Hardest Word' - a song about a doomed romance - and Henry Kissinger once declared 'You are you and that is the beginning and the end - no apologies, no regrets.'

    More recently Lance Armstrong, the cyclist stripped of seven Tour de France titles for doping, protested his innocence long and hard before finally saying sorry in an Oprah Winfrey interview last month.

    And Nick Clegg's famous apology for his U-turn on university tuition fees was remixed into an autotuned pop track that even entered the pop charts.

    Lead author Dr Tyler Okimoto, of the University of Queensland Business School, wanted to find out why people often refuse to say sorry despite apologies being seen as a 'cheap' way to reduce blame and punishment.

    His findings, published in the European Journal of Social Psychology, come from two experiments.

    The first involved 228 adults aged from 18 to 77. Some were asked to think about a time they had upset someone and apologised, others a time when they upset someone and refused to apologise and others a time when they upset someone and neither said sorry nor refused to.

    Participants who had refused to apologise reported having felt greater power and greater levels of self-esteem than those who had made an apology.

    'There can be beneficial psychological consequences for individuals who refuse to provide an apology to the victims of their harmful actions'

    Compared with having done nothing, having apologised also boosted self-esteem somewhat - but refusing to say sorry had a more powerful benefit on self-worth.

    A second experiment involved 219 people aged from 18 to 71. A third wrote an email apologising to someone for something they had done wrong in real life, another third wrote an email refusing to apologise and the final group had to think about something they had done wrong but did not write anything.

    People who refused to apologise felt significantly greater self-esteem afterwards than those who had not written an email.
    But those who had made an apology did not.

    Dr Okimoto and colleagues wrote that the benefits people felt from refusing to say sorry 'appeared to trump any potential negative effect on self-esteem resulting from the defence of harmful actions.'

    They added: 'Taken together, the results of these two studies provide converging evidence that there can be beneficial psychological consequences for individuals who refuse to provide an apology to the victims of their harmful actions.'

    The team concluded that the findings could help explain 'seemingly irrational, antisocial, or callous behaviour' displayed by wrongdoers and suggested further research to look at whether the apparent benefits of refusing to say sorry lasted in the long-term.


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...#ixzz2Yoj05bCU
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