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Thread: When Sorry Becomes A Sorry Word

  1. #21
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    Re: When Sorry Becomes A Sorry Word

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenci View Post
    Interesting study
    I wonder if the value of the relationship between the two parties was also noted in the research. This would account for the appearance and sincerity of an apology. Despite how well a person thinks that they have their lives sorted out, they will eventually and probably inadvertently be hurtful at some time. This is because we are not mind readers. I know that when I stopped expecting people to know how I felt and used honest communication, there was a lot less confusion.

    Life isn't always about deep thoughts. In reading the Power of Now again, it clearly describes about the level of working on ones spiritual journey and functioning in daily life, the dichotomy that I found confusing but Tolle illustrates well. Not everyone is at the same level of development in their journey and some think themselves further along than they may really be. This mismatch can be difficult at times with fluctuations. But I have always felt that communication takes care of 99% of most problems. And to reference Tolle again, dealing with them in the Now.

    I am no longer the angry hotheaded irrational 20 something that I used to be. I've progressed beyond that. I'm not so quick to discard people (but some people seem to want to be discarded). I understand that the individuals at the end of my toes are beyond my control and have baggage of their own at play, so I have developed a level of tolerance, but that would be situation dependent. At this stage of this life I know my limits. The well is only so deep.

  2. #22
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    Re: When Sorry Becomes A Sorry Word

    The value of doing 'nothing' can never be over rated . Or at least do nothing until one knows rather than feels what one should do.

    Sorry is word I've come to regard as meaningless as 'nice'. There's no meaning to it. It's bland sort of word.

    It implies that one must have an equally sorrowful feeling to be shared by the person who was stung. I have observed that those who want 'sorry' don't. They want something else.

    If one is already in a sorrowful state... (perhaps feeling sorry for one's self) it seems peculiar to me that one would ask for more 'sorry' or ...sorrow.

    Is it a case of "I want you to feel as badly' as I do? Which is a peculiar thing to ask if one knows how wretched it feels to be in that state, is seeking an abatement of that feeling by asking for more to be directed their way. Or if one knows how wretched one feels why would we be compelled to ask another to feel that way?

    Infringing very much on creating victim /abuser behaviors until one sorts this mechanism out. Social programming through our language strikes again because sorry and apology and regret are all different things.

    An untruthful word really. We should share a somewhat bummer of a feeling --sorrow. If I bump into someone in a store and absently say 'sorry' am I really? No. It's just social programming. Not a word I use often, because it is mostly untruthful. If I run my grocery cart up on someone's heels actually causing them pain then that tends to be a bit more like I'm mortified; I caused pain. I am truly regretful I caused pain and my feel a bit of it myself.

    Feeling injured means that a dense emotion has been struck and one is now 'feeling' the effects of it, feeling and emotions being two different things.

    If one is honest with one's self and we are deliberately making a choice to inflict pain, there's no point in attempting to be sorry.

    Pain was the intention. I learned that in my family who judges, criticize, and pushes buttons (inadvertently and otherwise ). In unmindful ways. But....There, here and abroad I will always pull out the bigger gun. So I have to wonder if people are asking for pain (to feed the pain body).

    "I'm not sure how I could live with closets as messy as yours"

    "Well you have a lot more free time to keep a tidy closet since MY child is not running wild in the streets."

    This is meant to be a reminder about being mindful or examining the beam in one's own eye before obsessing about the moat in mine. Not so much a means of inflicting pain but a reminder to not impose it on others.


    "Making one feel like an asshole", Another hallmark accusation directed at me.

    Am I sorry I made someone feel like an asshole? I don't know what feeling like an asshole is like so I dare say it would be difficult for me to transfer that feeling on to others. It's not as if I can hurl myself on to their chest, pin them down, and force feed them asshole.

    One notices they probably felt like an asshole long before I ever came along and I reminded them they felt that way about themselves.

    My standard reply is query "Are YOU an asshole?" I seldom get a reply because the responsibility (how they respond) to their own emotional state is put back in their court. So then concludes that drama (or stir it to simmering animosity) by saying "I'm sorry you are an asshole." I gave them what they asked for and no one ever seems content with getting what they asked for. I may say sorry but.....

    But I'm not really because their assholery really has nothing to do with me if it were in existence before I came along.

    Is "I'm sorry I reminded you that you feel like an asshole" better? I have found that its not better :lol:. I might feel better but then I didn't feel badly to begin with.

    How about this word.

    Regret.

    I regret that my words and actions caused you distress. I won't/ can't be sorry but I do I regret that circumstances within you are such that I inadvertently triggered something. I can't really be sorry. I cannot FEEL the way that you feel because I'm not the injured party. I don't own your pain body. I don't have your wounds. Or embedded reaction triggers. I can't absorb your feelings and identify with them because it is necessary for one's own psyche health to transcend those sorts of things. It risks turning into a control drama. Once it turns into a control drama there's little chance of having a healthy outcome.

    The injured party is the one who is in a state of 'pain' or sorrow. Pain body was triggered as Tolle would say.

    Conversely ..... the victim can flip to abuser mode:

    When we ask for sorry are we really asking for an apology which is based around regret? Or are we craving equal amounts of pain , 'wanting others to be sorry'. Wanting others to feel pain. Sorrow. That can be quite impossible because some have cleared out enough of their past grievances to the point where they can't be triggered anymore by appeals for 'sorrow'. (which is not compassion but sorrow)

    Because apology and sorry are two different things. One is a form of regret, the other is all about feeling.

    Another interesting phrase soon to follow is one I coined myself.

    Victim Immunity.
    Last edited by 9eagle9; 07-12-2013 at 06:49 AM.

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    Re: When Sorry Becomes A Sorry Word

    Quote Originally Posted by 9eagle9 View Post
    Because apology and sorry are two different things. One is a form of regret, the other is all about feeling.
    Interesting discussion. I see this a little like semantics but I see were this is going. Here is Wikipedia (b/c we know that wikipedia is perfect:lol

    "Regret is a negative conscious and emotional reaction to personal past acts and behaviors. Regret is often expressed by the term "sorry." Regret is often a feeling of sadness, shame, embarrassment, depression, annoyance, or guilt, after one acts in a manner and later wishes not to have done so. Regret is distinct from guilt, which is a deeply emotional form of regret one which may be difficult to comprehend in an objective or conceptual way. In this regard, the concept of regret is subordinate to guilt in terms of its emotional intensity. "

    Agreed it is not a victim making process or the flipping of the victim into the abuser. Regret is an interesting word. But call it what ever you would like as long as the "injury" is acknowledged and the behavior is identified and stopped. And it is the injury and not the definition of the individual. It is not about investigating right or wrong, but an acknowledgement.

    It certainly is not about superficial platitudes but when boundaries are crossed there needs to be recognition of the issue and not a further cerebral insult or brush off.

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    Re: When Sorry Becomes A Sorry Word

    One could view it as semantics but all our programming revolves around words and the languages we use and how they have been distorted. We have labels and names for emotions that are incorrect because we don't know what we are feeling.

    More importantly though is KNOWING how we feel or emotionalize. Knowing both of them. What is sorrow from regret anger from annoyance etc etc. That isn't semantics that's not 'knowing'. The emotions are all different; the words all mean something different. Some people can't separate absence from abandonment (actually quite a lot). Until we get to know our emotional body and whats in it ...Get in touch with ourselves....We tend to clump them all up. People who are too overly sensitive to annoyance, irony, sarcasm, have wounded emotional bodies ALWAYS see me as in a state of raving anger. Those who are healthier...don't.

    My sisters are very critical of me, they can't hide it but conversely always say that I am the most easy going of the entire bunch of us. then I go out in the broader world and everyone regards me as as butcher knife with a dress on. I am happy to report to my sisters as much as I thought that they were emotionally wounded, they are actually in much better shape then most 'enlightened' people.

    We took the word sensitivity and the new age glamorized it meaning one is psychically sensitive or in tune. They aren't. Made a virtue out of victimhood.

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    Re: When Sorry Becomes A Sorry Word

    I doubt Regret is negative. Without it we'd all be butchers. A means of compassion without climbing in bed with the wound or punching one's self up with guilt over lifes little conflicts and challenges.

    Guilt is not regret, guilt is taking personal responsibility or reaction over someone eases injuries.One is not being responsible with one's emotions and another assumes responsibility for them. One may be regretful over someone else's injuries, but not assume the responsibility or FEEL responsible. Because no matter how much we rationalize .....we can never get away from the fact the only people responsible for our emotionally generate feelings...is ourselves.

    Guilt has a dense or what one may call negative value. I regret what we all have to go through in order to become functional. I regret what happened to you, I regret Jenci's struggles, I regret any of that had to happen. But the end result the other end of the journey is not regrettable. I didn't cause or participate in any of that but I can still feel that regret that to bring ourselves to a point of awareness we have to experience pain.

    When we have unhealthy emotions they may create a FEELING of pain that seems to be the same feeling. Pain is pain. The Emotion is different. Healthier emotions like regret don't generate pain, guilt creates a feeling of pain. Guilt tripping and guilt making are avenues to the psychic or emotional feeder. Why some people like to put another on a guilt trip.


    Like 9/11. I regret that happened, but there's no reason for me to feel guilty about it.

    Regret is an avenue of the authentic empathy we talk about; not the artificial pathological sort where we identify with another's pain for gain.
    Last edited by 9eagle9; 07-12-2013 at 10:57 AM.

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    Re: When Sorry Becomes A Sorry Word

    just say sorry and stop trying to analyse the bloody word.:lol:

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    Re: When Sorry Becomes A Sorry Word

    It certainly is not about superficial platitudes but when boundaries are crossed there needs to be recognition of the issue and not a further cerebral insult or brush off.

    Awww, here's an interesting discussion. Boundaries.

    What are they and how do we defend them?

    We have boundaries, they are ours, and so it is up to us to defend them.

    I don't much care for the defending of boundaries because those are walls we put up and a lot of times we inadvertently put the wall up and then ....invite others in. Meaning we shouldn't have so much to be defensive (reactive) about.

    Here's my personal view of boundaries.

    No one crosses mine. ...without my permission.

    They are there to be defended by me. Having boundaries is not that healthy. Having standards is healthy, boundaries are not really. But necessary I suppose to keep ourselves from curling into a fetal position during certain stages of our spiritual growth.

    So how do we defend our boundaries. They are ours, its up to us to defend them. To do otherwise is to put ourselves in a defenseless position.

    The easiest way to put ourselves in a defenseless positions is by trying to think with feelings. Because we can't think with feelings.

    I have very few boundaries (quite a lot of standards though) and the typical half asleep person would never be able to find them. Not that the attempt is not made (it is and often....) When people go jabbing at buttons it is usually their **** that is bothering them. So they assume it would bother me. Those are their boundaries they are trying to navigate not mine. So there's no emotional investment or feeling there because its not mine, it's theirs.

    Someone who is very astute may find them but then I have little to fear they are going to invade my borders. And if they do....I can defend that border if they come marching in with ill intent or just want to button-push. That means they are attempting to sabotage me and that means they can trot home with their tail on fire. Because at the end of the day their boundaries are probably going to be much much more prevalent than mine . The evidence of that is people who insist on breaking boundaries WITHOUT INVITATION have funky **** going on with them in the first place.

    In understanding my **** and owning I can see their **** ever much more clearly . They want to button push, I'll get a sledge hammer and breaking the entire machine ... one's mind is much quicker when the pain body isn't involved.

    But if I've opened that door for them.....that's by my own actions. But I still have that choice to defend them by 1) trying to think with feelings (FAIL) or
    2) Not using feelings (reactiveness) to defend my boundaries but logic. Knowing and truth will do it any day. One's own self authority is gained by not being led around by the emotional body that tries to think. The first part is admitting ...."I invited someone in."

    Boundary beating is really only exciting for the thrill seeker when there is a reaction.


    The self management part of this is..... I won't do is discuss those boundaries because when I open that door I might a hard time defending them. I have left myself vulnerable. I may even have a range of very nasty emotions for leaving myself vulnerable...that I direct at myself.

    My inability to defend my borders is my responsibility to my self and that begins with not revealing them in the first place. If I don't want to feel vulnerable I don't open the door. I don't spread the word hither and yon that I'm *** and then wonder why someone is sitting in my living room all ready to explore and discuss why i'm XXXXX. I have to suck it up then.

    If I don't want people walking over my boundaries I don't put the moat bridge down for them. Then there is nothing for me to defend, nothing for me to have to discuss or feel disconcerted or angry about.

    Me managing me. Otherwise it becomes someone else managing me and that's not healthy.

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    Re: When Sorry Becomes A Sorry Word

    Quote Originally Posted by 9eagle9 View Post
    We have boundaries, they are ours, and so it is up to us to defend them.
    This is quite true. Like you I don't advertise, although when a boundary is crossed i will let them know they have done so. People aren't mind readers so I don't expect them to know how far to go. What they do with that information is their decision. But I will not be a door mat.

    Quote Originally Posted by 9eagle9 View Post
    They want to button push, I'll get a sledge hammer and breaking the entire machine ...
    This will be my next response. "Get you grubby paws off my baggage". Thank you.


    Quote Originally Posted by 9eagle9 View Post
    If I don't want people walking over my boundaries I don't put the moat bridge down for them
    This one is tricky, as I believe this means not sharing information with people, and that is not condusive to developing relationships with people. But I can see where you will go with that and I will disagree right up front - although I do not need anyone, I still want to have friendships and relationships with others. I guess this is where the risk is taken. This is part of daily living. I understand that boundaries will be crossed but once a person understands the error, their response determines my next course of action. See top of this post.

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    Re: When Sorry Becomes A Sorry Word

    although when a boundary is crossed i will let them know they have done so.

    By that time it' s not really necessary. Due to the reactive way we guard our boundaries it's been made abundantly clear prior to letting them know verbally. Our letting them know a boundary is crossed is often when we blame them for crossing it. It depends on what boundary has been crossed, and how it has been crossed; we are easily read people, nothing is really private, so even if we are not consciously and verbally spilling our guts to all and sun dry people will observe it. Recognize it. In that respect for some people we have no boundaries at all, defense able or non defense able. They just see too much. For a reason.

    Even if we get out from under the impression that someone can't see our ****....I mean talk about our issues and wounds if we have a goal of clearing but that's it...once we've discussed it with others you've opened the door. So...One presumes its okay to discuss our issues and the boundary we've put around it.

    It's unfair actually to do that and it destroys trust from other directions.

    There's some people who want my advice and I'm like ' Yeah I'm digging my own grave there. I'm not touching your **** because you ask me to touch it and then slap my hands and get angry when I do." Meaning I don't trust them to discuss their **** in a way that becomes them in the least.

    For people not quite so acutely tuned in its probably not an issue because more than likely they are projecting their **** onto you. Meaning what would give them a pinch of reaction is what they will direct at you, which may not be one's reactive point at all.

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