Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 15

Thread: Menopause - Men are to Blame

  1. #1
    Senior Member Jenci's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,609
    Thanks
    4,509
    Thanked 3,468 Times in 1,294 Posts

    Menopause - Men are to Blame

    And that is not some hormonal moody woman saying it, the researchers say it


    When looking at the reason why the human species is the only one which cannot reproduce all throughout their lives some researchers have concluded that it is because of "preferential mating" in that men of all ages look for younger partners.

    Not everyone agrees though..



    By Caroline Parkinson

    Health editor, BBC News website



    Hot flushes, night sweats, mood swings - menopause and its side effects can all be blamed on men, experts suggest.

    Evolutionary geneticists from Canada's McMaster University say men's tendency to choose younger mates meant fertility became pointless for older women.

    In PLOS Computational Biology, they say this eventually led to the menopause.

    But a UK expert said that was the "wrong way round" and men chose younger women because older women were less fertile.


    Researchers have long been puzzled as to why it appears that human are the only species where females cannot reproduce throughout their lives.

    Previous theories had proposed a "grandmother effect". This suggests that women lose their fertility at an age where they might not live to see a child grow, and instead are available to care for younger women's children.

    The menopause was therefore seen as the block to older women from continuing to reproduce.



    But this latest theory suggests things work the other way around, and that it is the lack of reproduction that has given rise to menopause.

    Using computer modelling, the team from McMaster's concluded "preferential mating" was the evolutionary answer - men of all ages choosing younger women as partners.

    That meant there was "no purpose" in older women continuing to be fertile.

    Prof Rama Singh, an evolutionary geneticist who led the study, said men choosing younger mates were "stacking the odds" against continued fertility.

    He told the BBC: "There is evidence in human history; there was always a preference for younger women."

    Prof Singh stressed they were looking at human development many thousands of years ago - rather than current social patterns,


    In the UK, the average age for women to go through the menopause is now 52 even though the average woman goes on to live for another 30 years.

    Prof Singh said this extended longevity - plus later childbirth - could potentially alter the timing of the menopause, over a significant period of time.

    "The social system is changing. There are women who are starting families later, because of education or a career."

    He suggested this trend would mean those women would have a later menopause, and those genes would be passed on to their daughters "with the possibility of menopausal age being delayed".

    However Dr Maxwell Burton-Chellew, an evolutionary biologist in the department of zoology at the University of Oxford, challenged the theory.

    "The authors argue that the menopause exists in humans because males have a strong preference for younger females.

    "However, this is probably the wrong way round - the human male preference for younger females is likely to be because older females are less fertile.

    "I think it makes more sense to see the human male preference for younger females largely as an evolved response to the menopause, and to assume that ancestral males would have been wise to mate with any females that could produce offspring."

    He added: "Evolutionarily-speaking, older females faced an interesting 'choice': have a child that may not reach adulthood before your own death, or stop reproducing and instead focus on helping your younger relatives reproduce."


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-22886668

  2. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Jenci For This Useful Post:

    9eagle9 (06-17-2013),Daqua (06-17-2013),followthebubbles (06-17-2013)

  3. #2
    Retired Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Meaniapolis
    Posts
    1,925
    Thanks
    1,173
    Thanked 2,977 Times in 1,285 Posts

    Re: Menopause - Men are to Blame

    I too have always said menopause was an unnecessary program. No one mentions forced menoapause where women have their uteres ( I can't spell uterus!!) at a certain age 'just because'. That's epidemic here stateside and causes more problems usually than it abates. Something might be wrong or more often doctors just recommend yanking it out in case it causes trouble. We are all taught our bodies are ticking time bombs just waiting to be explode into some horrible disease so we conduct these preemptive attacks on it.

    Reproduction, reproduction organs and that whole ball of wax, is just another outlet and vehicle for creative energy. For women who find it awkward to be carrying a baby around at 50, creative energy can be redirected with real authentic creative energy.

    I know its a whole program and I'm going to be my own crash test dummy on this one and not have menopause at all. After almost forty years of the messy part, I'm used to it. The other odd onersome bits I can deal with, and basically that sort of mess is just another function of the body that tells's me what's going on in my body I need to pay attentionn to. We are taught to hate our bodies


    Part of the aging program. I find it useless we should spend the last 30/40 years of our lives decrepit and aged and afflicted with body rebellion. Hot flashes are the bodies way of setting off the flare: SOS PAY ATTENTION TO ME!! Something's not right here!

    I'm finding the 'younger' woman preference is a hallmark of wealthy or successful men. Several years back I was on an internet forum and we got to talking about our parents. Its seems nearly all of us 'common' people had mothers who were quite significantly older than their fathers. After that I began seeing it everywhere.

    Another aspect of consumerism mentality among a certain social or wealth class, than a man wide preference for younger woman. Where the man needs the newest model every year.

    Most men I am friends with don't exhibit that as a trait.

  4. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to 9eagle9 For This Useful Post:

    Daqua (06-17-2013),followthebubbles (06-17-2013),HURRITT ENYETO (06-20-2013),Jenci (06-20-2013),PurpleLama (06-17-2013)

  5. #3
    Retired Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    306
    Thanks
    597
    Thanked 603 Times in 246 Posts

    Re: Menopause - Men are to Blame

    Quote Originally Posted by 9eagle9 View Post
    I know its a whole program and I'm going to be my own crash test dummy on this one and not have menopause at all. After almost forty years of the messy part, I'm used to it. The other odd onersome bits I can deal with, and basically that sort of mess is just another function of the body that tells's me what's going on in my body I need to pay attentionn to. We are taught to hate our bodies
    I love this analogy! I found I was starting to have menopause symptoms big time when i was at the end of a bad marriage. Now that it's behind me the symptoms have all but almost abated. I get a reminder once in a while. But my ovaries are still reminding me I'm female.

    I do not understand why people hate their bodies. There is so much variation in them, making them unique. Self loathing should be replaced with self acceptance. I have body parts that definitely come from my father's side of the family - baby birthing hips and i laugh that they are wasted on me. At least now they make clothing to accommodate them. :lol:


    Quote Originally Posted by 9eagle9 View Post
    I'm finding the 'younger' woman preference is a hallmark of wealthy or successful men.
    I think there are other programs running here too - back to the self acceptance. As much as they can invent menopause they can invent the male midlife crisis. The morning that they wake up and there's no erection! End of life as they know it! And off goes that mental spiral. And the need to prove something to ones self.

    Interesting thread, you got a jump on something I was thinking of adding to the conflict thread as the above issues can drive a wedge between the sexes as these are taboo topics to talk openly about. Kinda like the cancer word that used to be whispered b/c no one want to say it out loud...

  6. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to followthebubbles For This Useful Post:

    9eagle9 (06-21-2013),Daqua (06-17-2013),Jenci (06-20-2013)

  7. #4
    Senior Member Adam Bomm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    2,616
    Thanks
    2,155
    Thanked 1,098 Times in 808 Posts

    Re: Menopause - Men are to Blame

    Well, I'll go you one better, one of my greatest joys in life is going one better Evolutionary biologists believe sex started as a disease. I gotta another one for you: Asexuality, it ain't just for amoebas anymore. On a more serious note, the presence of fathers in their daughters lives actually slows down the physical maturation process. And finally, Men rule....not.

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to Adam Bomm For This Useful Post:

    9eagle9 (06-21-2013)

  9. #5
    Senior Member sjkted's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    636
    Thanks
    233
    Thanked 893 Times in 396 Posts

    Re: Menopause - Men are to Blame

    Funny. I'm just back from reading on the goat forum about what age does (female goats) are no longer fertile. It seems the consensus is around 8-10 years of age, although they can live longer than that.

    Btw, in the goat world the buck will do the deed with all of the females whether that be a few or 30-40. They don't seem to care much about age either.

    --sjkted
    Last edited by sjkted; 06-17-2013 at 06:08 PM.

  10. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to sjkted For This Useful Post:

    9eagle9 (06-17-2013),HURRITT ENYETO (06-20-2013),Jenci (06-20-2013)

  11. #6
    Retired Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Meaniapolis
    Posts
    1,925
    Thanks
    1,173
    Thanked 2,977 Times in 1,285 Posts

    Re: Menopause - Men are to Blame

    Goats will do the deed with anything. A 5 year old child, a dog, one's leg, lunchbox, bale of hay, and car tire.

    Only exceeded by Alpaca's that are taller that will try to mount a horse, and I observed one trying to hump a rotating sprinkler one day.

    @AdamL What sort of disease?

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to 9eagle9 For This Useful Post:

    sjkted (06-17-2013)

  13. #7
    Senior Member Adam Bomm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    2,616
    Thanks
    2,155
    Thanked 1,098 Times in 808 Posts

    Re: Menopause - Men are to Blame

    Quote Originally Posted by 9eagle9 View Post

    @AdamL What sort of disease?
    LOL, what else, 'a physical irritation' in the form of an itch that couldn't be scratched. A passing prokaryote did the trick. Disgusting!

  14. #8
    Senior Member Jenci's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,609
    Thanks
    4,509
    Thanked 3,468 Times in 1,294 Posts

    Re: Menopause - Men are to Blame

    Some interesting information in this article looking at the symptoms that women have during menopause and how they are different, or lacking in different cultures.




    Perimenopause signs and culture –
    why are we all so different?

    It’s all in our life baggage





    Ask almost anyone about perimenopause signs and many will say “Hot Flushes". These strange and unexplained feelings of heat, causing sweating and sometimes a chill afterwards are the famous sign that everyone associates with middle aged women.

    But like many things in life, hot flushes don’t come to everyone equally. And it’s notable how much they vary by culture and ethnic group.


    No-one’s the same

    A review of how hot flushes vary around the world showed some big differences: In North America they have been reported as affecting between 30% and 75% of women, and in Europe around 20 - 30%, whereas in Asia the range was from 5 – 20% (1). In some groups in India nobody reported hot flushes and in Mayan women in Mexico, nobody reported any perimenopause signs at all, other than menstrual changes!(2)


    So what on earth is going on?
    Understanding variations in perimenopause signs is very complicated and it is extremely tricky to research. There are so many things that can vary and some of these are very difficult to either measure accurately or assess objectively.

    Once you start to think about it, there are lots of factors that might affect the way our bodies behave when we reach midlife. And most of these are influenced by our culture. Because of this, some experts believe that a lifespan approach to understanding menopause is essential(3).






    Life baggage that can influence our perimenopause signs:

    Our genetic makeup which may alter the fine-tuning of how our bodies make and use oestrogen and other hormones.
    Our mother’s health and lifestyle when she was pregnant with us – because that’s when our eggs were being made.
    Our nutrition and environment when we were growing up.
    Our sexual and reproductive stories – whether we've been pregnant, our age at first pregnancy, how many pregnancies we’ve had, how long the gaps were between pregnancies, whether we’ve had our tubes tied, or had a hysterectomy etc.
    Our own general health and our lifestyles – how much exercise we take, whether we drink alcohol, smoke and whether we are thin, fat or about right.
    Many of us would have trouble answering some of these things in detail even if we tried. Some, like pregnancies, we usually remember but others, such as the diet we had when we were teenagers, or the amount we smoked and drank in our twenties, may be a bit more hazy.

    Research has shown, that in addition to all these factors, which we think of as being biological (or biology influenced by behaviour), there are other influences on our perimenopause symptoms. These include our level of education, our jobs, our financial and social status, and whether we are under stress or not.


    Then into the cauldron just add…

    …the issue of culture, ethnicity and language.




    Not only may all that biological and other baggage that I’ve just mentioned depend on culture, but the way the research is done opens another Pandora’s box:

    Because the language the researchers use affects how their questions are interpreted. Plus the expectations women have of perimenopause symptoms and how menopause is discussed and perceived, all vary with culture.

    Anthropologists argue about the best method to get this kind of knowledge: some feel that giving women from non-Western cultures questionnaires about so-called perimenopause signs is a bit like forcing square pegs into round holes. They argue that the only way to understand how women really experience menopause is to live in a culture for a long time and listen to their stories in depth(4).


    Language and culture affect meaning

    A study from the University of Massachussetts Medical School used data from the SWAN study (Study of Women’s Health Across the Nation) to show how important it is to take culture into account when trying to understand perimenopause symptoms (5).

    The SWAN study, involved over 3000 women from seven sites in the USA, and looked at differences in reporting of hot flushes – or vasomotor symptoms (VMS) - by non-Hispanic and Hispanic white, African American, Chinese and Japanese women.

    This study showed that it is all too easy to think (wrongly), that women understand a term in the same way as the researchers:

    "Questions that are assumed to be universal but are really understood differently or not understood by particular groups lead to possible misinterpretation." (5)

    And depending on the terms used, the research found that reporting varied – for instance the frequency of hot flushes in Japanese women varied by as much as 3% to 17% depending on the words used.

    A positive or negative attitude to menopause also influences symptom reporting:

    "The experience of menopause, including VMS, is seen as more positive and natural, less bothersome, and less likely to require medical intervention in non-European and non-European American women, consequently, VMS may be less remarkable or memorable for them." (5)

    Some of the questions were also answered differently depending on how much women had adopted mainstream American lifestyle. For instance Chinese women pointed out that menopause was not normally discussed in traditional Chinese culture in the same way that it is in the West.

    Finally it’s important to remember that the differences between women occur within the same culture as well as between different cultures.


    No standard women...

    It seems that in most cultures, at least some women experience hot flushes around the time of their periods stopping. In some cultures women are very bothered by them, in others less so. Whether the flushes are physiologically and objectively worse in the cultures where the women complain the most, is a matter of much speculation and debate.

    But at the end of the day, just as there is no such thing as a standard woman, there is no standard experience of perimenopause signs either.

    http://www.natural-menopause-journey...use-signs.html

  15. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Jenci For This Useful Post:

    9eagle9 (06-21-2013),followthebubbles (06-20-2013)

  16. #9
    Senior Member Jenci's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,609
    Thanks
    4,509
    Thanked 3,468 Times in 1,294 Posts

    Re: Menopause - Men are to Blame

    Quote Originally Posted by 9eagle9 View Post
    I know its a whole program and I'm going to be my own crash test dummy on this one and not have menopause at all. After almost forty years of the messy part, I'm used to it. The other odd onersome bits I can deal with, and basically that sort of mess is just another function of the body that tells's me what's going on in my body I need to pay attentionn to. We are taught to hate our bodies
    I'm intrigued by the idea of you not having a menopause. I can't say I find the idea attractive myself :lol: but I certainly am not interested in "suffering" through a menopause for a couple of years. As far as I am concerned my periods can stop, just how they started, with no fuss.

    Women are brought up to hate their bodies and to not understand them either. Most have no idea about how their reproductive system works and nor how contraceptions affect their body and how they work to prevent pregnancy.

    Women are kept in ignorance through lack of education and a prominent use of hormonal contraceptions which distorts their idea of what is "normal".

    A normal reproductive cycle without hormones is not understood well and "discharge" becomes a dirty word, something which takes women to the doctors to be medically treated for what is natural.

  17. The Following User Says Thank You to Jenci For This Useful Post:

    followthebubbles (06-20-2013)

  18. #10
    Senior Member Adam Bomm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    2,616
    Thanks
    2,155
    Thanked 1,098 Times in 808 Posts

    Re: Menopause - Men are to Blame

    Interesting article Jenci...and it agrees with my contention that we don't always want to listen to our mother's or conventional wisdom. Epigenetics addresses some of these issues.

  19. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Adam Bomm For This Useful Post:

    9eagle9 (06-21-2013),Jenci (06-20-2013)

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •