Page 9 of 9 FirstFirst ... 789
Results 81 to 90 of 90

Thread: "After America... North America"

  1. #81
    Senior Member Adam Bomm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    2,603
    Thanks
    2,150
    Thanked 1,093 Times in 803 Posts

    Re: "After America... North America"

    Quote Originally Posted by 9eagle9 View Post
    You aren't the guy who jotted down a vin number of automobile at a auto dealer, requested the title from the state, and then showed up at the dealership with the sheriff to repossess his car.

    The guy who did that got his idea from the bank. Why can't we repossess **** if the US government and the Federal Reserve made us all private bankers.

    It's not free as 'on the dole' its funds owed to us by the Federal Government.

    As for foreign visitors that is called allocation and offset.
    ok, that's interesting...but from that perspective, I have been repossessing sh*t from the government and corporations for years. I have tried with great earnest to make both entities miserable when dealing with me.

  2. #82
    Senior Member Adam Bomm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    2,603
    Thanks
    2,150
    Thanked 1,093 Times in 803 Posts

    Re: "After America... North America"

    Quote Originally Posted by 9eagle9 View Post
    Illegal immigration = NO reason to be here. Not visiting, not vacationing, not working, doesn't have refuge status, not attending school. So why are they here?. To serve a foreign nation.
    Propaganda Eagle. I have confidence that some people have the knowledge to actually have 'opinions' based on reality and facts. To be honest, I just don't expect this from you.

  3. #83
    In Memory Fredkc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    567
    Thanks
    108
    Thanked 1,035 Times in 443 Posts

    Re: "After America... North America"

    Ok, I have been away from this thread, for a bit. Just did some catching up.

    Zookie;
    How it is done, is a different topic. The important thing is that decentralization and scale reduction are absolutely mandatory to a just human organization. Breaking big things into smaller things will only be possible with CMoMA, not before.
    Ok, ya gotta decode "CMoMA" for me. Google failed miserably.

    Zookie;
    As for my long-range solutions: decentralization and reduction of scale. We are not creatures of omniscience, or of luminescence, so we should never aspire to be heliocentric about things. We are not creatures of scale, so we should never aspire beyond our proportion.
    Agreed. Been my observation for some time that eventually most systems of government fail because they do not scale up. Or, fail because the attempt to grow into a larger sphere of influence than they can successfully manage.

    I tend to like what I hear in most Libertarian thought, for instance. But where they fall down IMO is with their obsession with privatization.
    Ex:
    Their constant harping about the privatization of public services, so that they gain the "hunger", and self-discipline of a competitive atmosphere. Two key places this falls down:
    1. Things like water supply. A community (town A) has a local water source, what they want is construction & engineering expertise, and possibly management of same, once guilt. Where they go too far is, they would then allow this entity to engage the "free market" with more license than is wise.

    Once built, and under this "comany's" riegn, they discover that 30 miles down the road, another town (B) is in the same need, but without a water source. Libertarians would say that the company should be free to sell to townB... "Free market" and all that. Now this "free market" and natural laws of supply & demand begin to have an effect:
    A) Why shouldn't the Company charge townA the same higher price that townB is willing to pay?
    B) Supply & demand would dictate that, with less water available, townA's price would go up anyway.
    C) TownC offers the Company a better deal on their entire services, so Company packs, up their equipment, and moves away, leaving A, & B in a lurch.
    So, a system of "complete" market-driven systems does have drawbacks. Stated politically, there is a place for socialized ownership... at that level.
    2. Privatized Police Dept. This one I won;t bother expounding on. Suffice it to say that a company's drive to expand, and increase has all the makings for disaster.

    Decentralization: Has the ability to breathe life in so many things, it's almost a no-brainer. For instance,
    Education: Last time I looked at the numbers, the federal Dept. Of Education returns only 5 cents, of every dollar they scoop up from citizens. If that isn't bad enough, it has morphed into a beast completely devoted to "process", not effective education. What it needs is a quick and complete death. At times I think even the state level is too much concentration of power, here. With 3,144 counties (& parishes), you have an incredible opportunity to specialize, and experiment with making education effective, and relevant. Any county is free to adopt, and adapt the successes of others. What we have now is just a slow death. It's taken the US from the top country, to 9th in education. 'Nuff said.

    One of the few things that I thik benefit from a centralized system is a standard currency. However "Fiat" money is a non-starter. Complete slavery, actually.
    "I sincerely believe ... that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity under the name of funding is but swindling futurity on a large scale."

    "Paper is poverty,... it is only the ghost of money, and not money itself." Both by Thomas Jefferson
    Now, the size of our current economy really rules out a compete return to a gold-backed dollar. But what is possible is something justas good. The idea is to keep currency's value "grounded" in something real. So, instead of one commodity, base it upon what's called a "market basket" of commodities. Not only is the currency well grounded, it's done is such a way it becomes much harder to diddle with.

    http://fredsitelive.com/reference/ArtOfConfed.html
    http://fredsitelive.com/politics/usconst.htm

    That said, the system will only be changed if the people are willing to change it. To this, people have more relative input into how the system operates when the system is smaller.
    Mostly, what we've done, in our stupidity, is leave to government the things we "don't want to be bothered with" - we got lazy. Also, because, by nature, "We are not creatures of scale" (but we do have our moments).

    "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." - T. Jefferson...again.

    Unfortunately we've let government convince many of us that even our personal freedom, privacy, and the raising of our own children is beyond our competence. What they offer in return is incompetence, mixed with the force of endless government. Crap.

    And what have we for our troubles?
    The US national debt never exceeded 1 trillion dollars in all the interceding years between 1791 and 1982 ... almost 2 centuries under $1 trillion dollars ... then in 34 years from 1982 until now, it has skyrocketed by a scalar of 20.
    Even that under plays it. Gov't debt is growing exponentially. When Bush II came in it was around $5 Trillion. When he left, and Obama took over: $10 Trillion. now it stands at $20 Trillion, and will continue to grow exponentially until we are completely broke. When is that? It will NOT last 10 years.

    Pointing fingers at each other is a waste of time. It isn't the left, or right, it's BOTH! And, Zookie is right, "its by design." And like I said, on a different thread: "Unless your idea of nirvana involves you, and 98% of the world's population living in cardboard housing, and working 14 hrs a day alongside your children for a bowl of soup and a chunk of bread..." it's time to begin insisting on what course we take. Or...
    “You had to live—did live, from habit that became instinct—in the assumption that every sound you made was overheard, and, except in darkness, every movement scrutinized.”—George Orwell, 1984

    So, some 15 years after the event, where is due process in these fabulous courts of America?
    It left town, along with the Rule Of Law. And what did we, as Free citizens do? Nothing. Seems we've left it up to the ones that "broke it" to fix it.... again. It infuriates me that, as a people, we've basically abandoned our freedom, and even any sign of ritcheous indignation.

    "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - -John Adams, America’s Second President
    "Life IS mystical! Its just that we're used to it." - Wolf, the movie
    "Dad, if God is everywhere then, when he's in a piece of paper, is he squished?" - My daughter, age 7

  4. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Fredkc For This Useful Post:

    9eagle9 (09-17-2016),Ross (09-17-2016),Zook_e_Pi (09-18-2016)

  5. #84
    Retired Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Meaniapolis
    Posts
    1,925
    Thanks
    1,173
    Thanked 2,977 Times in 1,285 Posts

    Re: "After America... North America"

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Bomm View Post
    Propaganda Eagle. I have confidence that some people have the knowledge to actually have 'opinions' based on reality and facts. To be honest, I just don't expect this from you.
    It's not an opinion its based on every day law & principles If someone is in your house and they aren't there for any reason and you have no idea who they are, the questions start. Chances are they shouldn't be there unless they are lost. Do you have any life experience at all here in the states?

    If people who are not here for any reason-- to work, on a visa, to visit, to be with family members , to attend a hospital, or attend school, what are they doing here and what should we refer to them as. Ghosts?
    Last edited by 9eagle9; 09-17-2016 at 03:35 PM.

  6. #85
    Retired Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Meaniapolis
    Posts
    1,925
    Thanks
    1,173
    Thanked 2,977 Times in 1,285 Posts

    Re: "After America... North America"

    Loitering, Adamm, its large scale loitering. It is unusual or propaganda that when one idling about another's home or business (private property) where one has no reason to be that someone may question them on it?

    This is where I get the idea that you don't observe anything in your environment or have zero life experience. Do you just aimlessly end up in other nations with no purpose or cause or reason? There are reasons behind this.

    What? Its cruel to not let people just pour in over the borders at will?

    I can't name any instances where America Citizens were caught loitering in another nation without having no reason to be there. Can someone name me some? NO, no answers questions or substantiates their claims in this joint!

    . L. H. Oswald was in Russia for a Reason. He wasn't just hanging out in Moscow drawing zero notice. Its really not that big of a deal that we'd expect the same regardless of where there came from. American Citizens have to show probable cause when they enter another nation. Why is such a huge deal when America does the same in return? OTHER nations request that America be more vigilant, as well.

    Clearly I'm getting the observation that it is okay for every other nation on earth to be moved only by inertia but its some dire moral issue when America is guilty of doing only the same thing they are doing.

  7. #86
    Retired Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Meaniapolis
    Posts
    1,925
    Thanks
    1,173
    Thanked 2,977 Times in 1,285 Posts

    Re: "After America... North America"

    What reasons? Emotions are not reasons, although some people are persistently miserable because they don't examine their emotions.

    Like some people are constantly afraid although there is no apparent danger.

    Some people are miserable with no reason.

    Do we have to live in a world where everyone can do just as they want and that prohibiting others from disrespecting the life and rights of others is immoral and wrong. People, here at least, can do as they want as long as they are not harming anyone but people feel injured anyway...and can never explain why. No has injured them but they squawk injury anyway.

    How do you know people are THAT miserable? I'm not saying misery doesn't exist, particularly in 3rd world nations, but the world certainly isn't a huge ball of miserable scarcity you think it is.

    ....if you think scarcity is merely debt then that is easily solved. With some backbone one could intiate a process of debt release for anyone but ....debt and scarcity equate security in our nation.

    Restricting the entry of certain people that can show no cause to being here causes misery how?

    Why would self authority cause misery. I feel pretty good about the fact I can manhandle a v-8 down the road without killing anyone, or a green horse, and that I can dress myself, and not hide in the house all day waiting for life to happen, and that I an think, make my own decisions, not let others trespass on me, put my foot down and say now.

    WTF is wrong with that and why is it self destructive? It seems like I'm running my life instead of having to let others run it for me.

    I know people are miserable without any life management skills or self authority. I spent all day Weds helping my niece clean out her mother-in-laws house. MIL is in the hospital cause she can't stop smoking, doesn't take any treatments for her OCPD and is entirely dependent on the help of others. She spends literally thousands a month in cosmetics and clothes she never opens let alone enjoys, just on to the next purchase. Can't clean her house, can't have a hobby, a job, enjoy her grandkids. I know she's miserable. She has no control over her own life. She has 1200 sq foot home that is filled with stuff she's hoarded over 20 years she doesn't even know she has that wouldn't fit in 4000k house. All that **** represents every emotional and emotional block she can't process and the use of reason or though is beyond her and fills her with anxiety.

    No I do not mind helping her. She is a sweet lost soul. But she has to have some authority over her own life. Not because she's a pain in the ass but because it is destroying her. That is not security. Having 20k in Mac Mascara on a 600 dollar a month budget is not sane or security. She lives surrounded by hundred of thousands of dollars worth of stuff. Hardly scarcity more like scarce where it counts. Nor do I think she be enabled to go on like this. Nor does getting angry with her help. She has to be shown where her authority is.

    You seem to be confusing misery with scarcity.

  8. #87
    Retired Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Meaniapolis
    Posts
    1,925
    Thanks
    1,173
    Thanked 2,977 Times in 1,285 Posts

    Re: "After America... North America"

    Know what I see? People too scared to try. And when you are too scared to try you WILL fail. And repeated failure sucks the life out of you, it makes people miserable. If you think you can, you're correct. If you think you can't you are correct.

    I fail everyday. I'm okay. I succeed everyday. I'm okay. There has to be some balance. We can't learn anything if we don't fail. Everything I can fix is because I failed at fixing it a half dozen times. I don't talk about my failures because that isn't the point.

    There are days I have to force myself to count my blessings which are numerous. There are days they overwhelm me .

    I'm uncertain a lot. I'm okay. to get certain you have to develop, not just sit around feeling ****. More often than not, I'm certain. I'm okay.

    Everyday I could find something to feel shitty about, I could go on a man hunt. Why are we judging people and labeling them as miserable? It's like an automatic form of prejudice that's 'okay' because we think its compassion when its not.

    More often than not a victim society hates people who are a big bundle of misery and move confidently through life. It must be a horrible reminder one is that helpless. That is the only reason why. Compassionate people do not begrudge others good fortune. One can be wistful over it but condemning people who don't spook at their own shadow isn't going to abate misery.

    I do not have my sister in law's confidence in the kitchen but goddamn I'm glad she does. I'm okay. She doesn't have my confidence in the water. She's okay.

    She's scared of horses. She's okay. She made herself feed mine everyday until she wasn't scared of them anymore. She had to quit basing everything that happens to her on one experience.

    Everyone is terrified of my rooster. She's not. She's okay.

    We have to start letting ourselves be okay and stop enforcing the idea that everything is just a big bundle of **** and we're all helpless. There is balance here if someone looks for it.

    We're not.

    Able bodied people who are sound enough to bitch and scream about the misery of the world are not powerless.

    We tend to see the world through our inner eyes, and when someone sees nothing but miserable victims I get a pretty good idea of what is going on inside. Unless one entirely skipped their teenage years we all know what its like to be a self victimizer. So we spot it pretty easiliy in others. And self victimizers only have sympathy for other self victimizers, only have compassion for those they can relate to.

    Taking into account Ignorance is Bliss I'd say the world isn't a solid wall of misery.

    There is good in the world but if we hate it only because it reminds of us of our shortcomings then we aren't the good guys.

  9. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to 9eagle9 For This Useful Post:

    Adam Bomm (09-17-2016),aikisaw (09-17-2016),Fred Steeves (09-18-2016)

  10. #88
    Senior Member Adam Bomm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    2,603
    Thanks
    2,150
    Thanked 1,093 Times in 803 Posts

    Re: "After America... North America"

    Quote Originally Posted by 9eagle9 View Post
    You seem to be confusing misery with scarcity.
    No, not really, that was entirely my point...

  11. #89
    Retired Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Meaniapolis
    Posts
    1,925
    Thanks
    1,173
    Thanked 2,977 Times in 1,285 Posts

    Re: "After America... North America"

    But you can never reasonably describe that or offer an example. Vague feelings offer no examples. Yet I must just accept it on faith? And I will take what people say at face value when they are not known for flipp- flopping back and forth and contradicting themselves. Not having any self authority makes one lose credibility too.

  12. #90
    Senior Member Zook_e_Pi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    On the way to Tiperary (via shortcut through the Tum Tum trees)
    Posts
    1,048
    Thanks
    1,274
    Thanked 1,212 Times in 633 Posts

    Re: "After America... North America"

    Zookie;
    How it is done, is a different topic. The important thing is that decentralization and scale reduction are absolutely mandatory to a just human organization. Breaking big things into smaller things will only be possible with CMoMA, not before.
    Ok, ya gotta decode "CMoMA" for me. Google failed miserably.
    Critical Mass of Mass Awareness. Though, I guess CMiMA is better English. A collective meaning. To distinguish from Critical Mass in Awareness, which has both individual and collective possibilities.

    In any event, you get it, Fred. Yes, the primary problem is indeed design.

    Process is a subset of design ... and those hung up on process will continue to spin wheels in the given design. Traction will only be possible if the design is addressed in earnest and vacated.



    Pax
    Last edited by Zook_e_Pi; 09-18-2016 at 08:01 AM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •