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Thread: Illness 101

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    Re: Illness 101

    Quote Originally Posted by 9eagle9 View Post
    I didn't really mean that but its relevant too; even the best parents seem to pass their surface conditiond on to us or we just accept social and cultural orientations without examining them closely to see if they have any merit like the US's predilection for referring to itself as the land of the free when its not...lol. rules that go without saying is a good term for it.
    What about even deeper rules, about what gets us ill and what doesn't get us ill? Even deeper than that, rules what the 'tree' is and what it looks like? Parents transfer their interpretation of the world, on top of conventions that make the rules of the world. My parents taught me to speak Serbian. Your parents taught you to speak English. We didn't sit in class in order to learn that, we picked it up as the only way to communicate. For all we know, for at least several years of early age, there was no other language in existence. No other language was even possible.

    So if you are raised in the family of alchemists/wizards, and they knew how to see or manipulate energy, you are most likely to pick that up without having to be taught abut that. That would make your description of the world and mine description of the world completely incompatible. You would actually see things I don't see.

    Quote Originally Posted by 9eagle9 View Post
    Dunno. Just because a thousand people think I'm incorrect doesn't mean I am. (obscure reference to another forum). In spiritual self development majority doesn't get to rule the way it does in the democratically programmed masses.
    But you are much stronger than average folks, in terms of being able to arm wrestle with them. I am not speaking about idea level only, I am speaking about deep down interpretation of the world level. Imagine you don't have the strength to ensure your description wins (in YOUR own scope of the descriptions). MSM announces there is flu epidemics going on. Majority accepts that without second thought and they get a flu. You don't and you don't.

    If you don't have strong will and skills to win, your interpretation of the world would indeed be shaped by other people interpretations and that would make the only truth.

    If thousand people look at the house and think that house is burning (they see it burning), they are actually making that house burn more, by modifying/upholding its description. If you look at it at the same time, final outcome is the result of all your influences combined. If you are strong enough you are actually capable of modifying house description so all thousand people see flames waning. It is not democracy in any form, it is the final results of the multiplication of the vectors of all of you. If your vector can pull stronger you can influence actual outcome. Other approach is what Reavs said, about convincing all thousand people (on superficial level) that house does not burn -- which makes them modifying its description on much deeper level once again resulting in house not burning.

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    Senior Member Adam Bomm's Avatar
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    Re: Illness 101

    Quote Originally Posted by Reaver View Post
    In different schools, there is one claim that I never fully understood for ages: if you want to change 'reality', do it very late at night. Understanding how feedback/world description loop works, it is perfectly logical that late at night majority of people that can get in a way, participating in a consensus, are simply sleeping and that way knocked out of equation.
    Beyond that the mind is in a state in terms of wave patterns (energy) that are conducive to 'feeling'/'seeing' alternate realities. Which, now it occurs to me that we are not really creating reality we are just tapping into 'other' realities that are coexistent. Yeah, that makes sense to me.

    In a manner of speaking, in conventional physics reality doesn't become or remain extant until 'observed' which consequently collapses the energy waves to what we 'experience'. If as individuals or as a group we 'observe' an alternate reality we collapse it and it becomes extant or 'real'.
    Last edited by Adam Bomm; 01-18-2015 at 07:19 AM.

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    Re: Illness 101

    Quote Originally Posted by 9eagle9 View Post
    Dunno. Just because a thousand people think I'm incorrect doesn't mean I am. (obscure reference to another forum). In spiritual self development majority doesn't get to rule the way it does in the democratically programmed masses.
    Consensus reality sucks! It is woefully limiting...we all know that.

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    Re: Illness 101

    Conversely there are those who pick a certain self image for themselves and project it in public, but after watching the person in question for a while--their words, behaviors, and actions--that is in direct contradiction to the persona they've chosen for themselves....that may take a bit of observation but in that way nothing can be truly private either.

    Of course this premise is what politics hinges on.


    Quote Originally Posted by 8t88 View Post
    This is absolutely how things must be, no objections. Logic and theory suggest it can't be any other way.

    In practice I have no idea how to make it work. To go public with some stuff and keep things under control is way beyond my skills. Even picking one single thing that will get reinforced they way I want it and not get tainted the way I don't want it requires finesse I don't have. So in practice all I can do is completely remove foreign influences, as much as I can, without wasting time on something that is very hard to achieve.

    I can see it working for religion type of re-education. You can form a religion like movement and make sure to reprogram all underlying dogmas, that can make it work. Otherwise you will have hard time controlling other programs running in the background.

    Let's say you have a kid and your kid does good in school. You start bragging around in order to reinforce kids success. Everybody will say nice words but that level does not matter much. Half of the people will be glad, half will be jealous. At best sum of their influences can be somewhere around zero. Nothing of much importance can be achieved that way.

    This is one of the very important things for me to discuss. If it is all endless match of arm wrestling, as I see it, the more we examine more we'll know.

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    Re: Illness 101

    On further reflection, I'd say that the 'self imagers' would also be more inclined to form an alternate description of others, not seeing them as they are but as their emotional comfort level allows them to see others--could be as a guru or monster depending on how many emotional filters on has.

    Quote Originally Posted by 9eagle9 View Post
    Conversely there are those who pick a certain self image for themselves and project it in public, but after watching the person in question for a while--their words, behaviors, and actions--that is in direct contradiction to the persona they've chosen for themselves....that may take a bit of observation but in that way nothing can be truly private either.

    Of course this premise is what politics hinges on.

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    Re: Illness 101

    yes, and yes...the people that do that are very confused about their own reality...it's really something to watch in action. Those people truly have no idea what's going on inside of them. They are probably products of double-bind upbringing but i've yet to see such an individual own up to that. I suppose that's why it continues unchecked in these people...denial and projection.

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    Re: Illness 101

    Quote Originally Posted by 9eagle9 View Post
    Conversely there are those who pick a certain self image for themselves and project it in public, but after watching the person in question for a while--their words, behaviors, and actions--that is in direct contradiction to the persona they've chosen for themselves....that may take a bit of observation but in that way nothing can be truly private either.

    Of course this premise is what politics hinges on.
    There is great similarity between politics and religion. Yes, getting fanatic following is a great way of achieving goals and probably much easier than pushing on my own. But I think you can't pull politics or religion (fanatic following) stunt without much bigger mechanism in the background. In short I think it is out of reach for all practical purposes.

    If my only goal would be power, smartest thing to do is to form a new religion. See what Hubbard did. But one can't do that without suffering from own rules. No matter how skilled, I would be influencing masses and modify their description of the world but they would do that for me too. There is no flexibility in doing that.

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    Re: Illness 101

    We didn't sit in class in order to learn that, we picked it up as the only way to communicate. For all we know, for at least several years of early age, there was no other language in existence. No other language was even possible.

    So the question would be, if a language were not spoken, how formed or programmed would one be? I would have to ask the multi lingual how many words do you have in your native tongue are defined in way that does not determine what it means? The English language is raddled with words that are defined in ways that do not support its meaning. Or are opposite of what it means.

    So if you are raised in the family of alchemists/wizards, and they knew how to see or manipulate energy, you are most likely to pick that up without having to be taught abut that. That would make your description of the world and mine description of the world completely incompatible. You would actually see things I don't see.

    I would say so from personal experience. Not to say my parents were wizards in the common sense of the word but I could see as a child how my mother manipulated energy, situations, and other people and in turn how she was manipulated by it herself. I trust it goes even deeper than that, epigenetically. My mother's side of the family were all great on horses, so was my father. Even though were were not terribly involved with them, nor directly passed that interest on to us, as small children both me and my sister picked up the equestrian gene. A generation skipped as it were. We also have similar temperments or natures though.



    But you are much stronger than average folks, in terms of being able to arm wrestle with them.

    Yes, there's a reason for that and we've all watched it at work. The use of reason requires little energy expenditure but I have found that people will expend vast amounts of emotional energy resisting 1+1=1+1. Because they expend all their energy in resistance and I don't....more so I find people expend much more energy in making descriptions or images to cast upon others. I don't, I just observe behaviors to allow me know what their nature is about. In spite of conveying this 'magic' they are still as apt to get spellbound in it. Because I know what they are doing because they never do anything differently...I know what they are doing because.....my mother did it :lol:. The wizardy of parents.


    If thousand people look at the house and think that house is burning (they see it burning), they are actually making that house burn more, by modifying/upholding its description.

    Conversley, here in the US the 'house' is burning down and no one notices because it doesn't fit the usual description--lots of smoke, heat, loss, people panicking or being moved to grab a hose or water bucket. Nonethesless of the effects of the house fire are observed--the place is falling apart. And those who are aware of the house burning are composed of 1) its burning and we can't do anything about it 2) let's tell everyone its burning and it will stop 3) grab a bucket. 1 and 2 will make any description to prevent 3 from grabbing a bucket. We've all watched that at work too.

    Inverse wizardy. It's not Gandolf, it's Saruman...lol. Don't throw a bucket of water on the great eye, we must join with him.

    Are you mad?

    No, the love of the halflings lief has clearly addled your brains!

    Other approach is what Reavs said, about convincing all thousand people (on superficial level) that house does not burn -- which makes them modifying its description on much deeper level once again resulting in house not burning.

    Again the US and other countries. No the house couldn't possibly be burning even the timbers are falling apart, the roof tiles are popping out but the house isn't burning. But when people wake up to something is wrong seldom think 'something is wrong I should fix it" they wait until something tells them something is wrong and then don't fix it. In some weird way it suffices for people that the 'fix' is knowing the house is burning and the fix is just describing in various ways how the house is wrong--creation of reality.

    In this way perhaps its better that the majority of people stay asleep so those who are awake can grab a bucket. After all the house was set to flame while people snoozed, so chances are good that a burning house is better put out by those who don't keep insisting its aflame, creating a bigger fire.

    Now that is all MSM news--one is given an image and its described what is occurring in the image. That becomes the reality.

    The house is an interested comparison though and metaphysical the house represents the soul --not the spirit (the fire) but the house. One can use the fire to warm the house or all the emotional clutter could catch on fire. One is tempered by fire. Or you can just leave the house.

    Interestingly and coincidentally enough last week I was sitting on the couch after cleaning out the woodstove and watched a coal drop on the floor from the ashbucket. It started to smolder and I sat there thinking, "If you were any other sort of person, your house would be on fire now."

    We used to conduct life from the house. In part this is what astrology is in terms of understanding your house-where are pieces of yourself placed at in other houses. We were born in a house, we lived there, we died there, we had our wake and funeral there, we cooked there, we worked there. Now we are born in other houses--hospitals--we get carted off to funeral HOMES when we die, we buy our food elsewhere, eat elsewhere, work elsewhere. Fragmenting away from the house.

    So say that we abandon the soul (the house) will something come in inhabit it? Take over the running of the house. What if the plumber visits but never leaves by deliberately messing up a drain trap so that you pay him vast amounts of money to return to fix the problem (sounds like a doctor). Or use the house other than what it was intended for, or burn the house down. What about UCC law that describes as abandoned souls they've claimed for salvage until someone comes to reclaim it.

    How much of this reality creation through the laws of nature?

    If something is abandoned something will come along shortly and claim it. Or inhabit it.

    So this also conveys to know what is going on one must observe instead of being told. People have to be shown not told, but then again if people can't see....or don't want to see, or are asleep....

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    Re: Illness 101

    Quote Originally Posted by 9eagle9 View Post
    Interestingly and coincidentally enough last week I was sitting on the couch after cleaning out the woodstove and watched a coal drop on the floor from the ashbucket. It started to smolder and I sat there thinking, "If you were any other sort of person, your house would be on fire now."
    Brilliant What would happen if you had critical mass of bystanders/guests? Not really a democracy issue but with enough of them you would be in real danger of having house on fire, under same conditions. Simply because they pull joint description of the world in other direction and they don't even know it.

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    Re: Illness 101

    Quote Originally Posted by 9eagle9 View Post
    So the question would be, if a language were not spoken, how formed or programmed would one be?
    This is the question. I am of course aware of how language works and how important in programming it is. But I am also not sure if that makes the whole story -- if baby gets raised in the family of wolves, so no language as such is spoken, it would still pick all the conventions of that family. Including the most important one, about how world gets described.

    In other words, if it would be possible to raise baby without any intelligence around, in a completely mechanical way, would that baby see the rock the same way we see it?

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