Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 12

Thread: Mysterious planet causing the whole solar system to wobble?

  1. #1
    Administrator Ross's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,147
    Thanks
    1,018
    Thanked 1,283 Times in 769 Posts

    Mysterious planet causing the whole solar system to wobble?

    Name:  planet-nine-0fcea180-96ea-11e6-bb29-bf2701dbe0a31_620x310.jpg
Views: 32
Size:  26.4 KB

    Article:

    Astronomers can't see "Planet Nine." But it makes its presence known.

    The massive hypothetical object, which supposedly looms at the edge of our solar system, has been invoked to explain the strange clustering of objects in the Kuiper belt and the unusual way they orbit the Sun.

    Now Planet Nine predictors Konstantin Batygin and Mike Brown of Caltech, along with graduate student Elizabeth Bailey, offer another piece of evidence for the elusive sphere's existence: It adds "wobble" to the solar system, they say, tilting it in relation to the sun.

    "Because Planet Nine is so massive and has an orbit tilted compared to the other planets, the solar system has no choice but to slowly twist out of alignment," lead author Bailey said in a statement.

    Before we go any further, a caveat about Planet Nine: It's purely theoretical at this point.

    Batygin and Brown predict its existence based on unusual perturbations of the solar system that aren't otherwise easily explained. (This is the same technique scientists used to find Neptune.) But the history of astronomy is rife with speculations that never bear out: The same guy who correctly predicted the existence of Neptune also believed that a planet he called Vulcan was responsible for the wobble of Mercury. That "discovery" caused the astronomy world to waste years looking for something that wasn't there (Mercury's wobble was eventually explained by the theory of general relativity).

    But the evidence offered by Batygin and Brown is compelling. When the pair announced their find in January, planetary scientist Alessandro Morbidelli of the Côte d'Azur Observatory in Nice, France, told The Washington Post: "I don't see any alternative explanation to that offered by Batygin and Brown."

    "We will find it one day," he added. "The question is when."

    The new research led by Bailey is based on the observation that the Sun rotates on a different axis than the orbits of the planets. Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune all move around the sun in a flat, shared plane - it's as if the planets were skaters on the same rink. But that plane is tilted at a six-degree angle with respect to the sun (which, from our perspective, makes it look like the sun is tilted).

    This tilt doesn't jibe with how astronomers say the solar system formed: 4.6 billion years ago, gravity started to pull together a vast, scattered cloud of gas and dust, causing it to spin into a disk. The center of the circle collapsed into a hot, dense ball of gas - the sun - and the remainder accumulated into planets. Because the sun came from the same disk as everything else, it should be spinning on the same plane. But it's not.

    "It's such a deep-rooted mystery and so difficult to explain that people just don't talk about it," Brown said.
    Enter Planet Nine. Based on Batygin and Brown's previous calculations, the hypothesized planet weighs five to 10 times as much as Earth and is, on average, 20 times farther from the sun than Neptune. It takes Planet Nine 10,000 to 20,000 years to orbit the sun.

    Planet Nine also orbits at an even more dramatic angle than the rest of the planets: about 30 degrees. That fact, combined with its distant location and massive size, could mean that its angular momentum puts the rest of the solar system off-kilter.

    "It's an argument that is basically like an asymmetrical seesaw or a dolly," Batygin told Astronomy Magazine. "Planet Nine has a really long orbit, so it can assert quite a bit of torque on the inner planets without having to apply so much force. Planet Nine has as much angular momentum as the entire solar system combined, because its orbit is so big."
    Over the course of several billion years, that could be enough to explain the six-degree tilt we now see.

    The study was posted in the online research database ArXiv, and will be published in the Astrophysical Journal this year. The scientists also presented their findings at the American Astronomical Society Division of Planetary Sciences's annual meeting in Pasadena, Calif., this week.

    According to Batygin, the research is a "consistency check" for their theories about Planet Nine. It provides another piece of evidence for the planet's existence, but it doesn't change our understanding of it or make it any easier to find. He, Bailey and Brown also don't know why the planet's orbit would be so off-kilter in the first place - perhaps it was knocked askew by Jupiter, or was influenced by the gravitational pull of other stars.

    Most of all, they need to find the darn thing. Scientists have a sense of its orbital path, but that path is thousands of years long. Even with some of the most powerful telescopes scouring the skies, it could be a very long wait.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/space/news...ectid=11733692
    Ross
    ***Fred Coleman, Founding Partner, Beloved Friend***
    who passed away 11/10/2016
    Rest in Peace
    ***

  2. #2
    Senior Member Adam Bomm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    2,622
    Thanks
    2,169
    Thanked 1,100 Times in 810 Posts

    Re: Mysterious planet causing the whole solar system to wobble?

    It seems kind of surprising that a 'planet' of 5 to 10 times as massive as Earth could cause all that fuss. Example, Jupiter is 318 times as massive. Something else is going on...perhaps more than one massive body. Didn't someone speculate that given that the predominate star system structure is binary would suggest that as a better probability. A dark star might be lurching around out there some where.

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to Adam Bomm For This Useful Post:

    Ross (10-22-2016)

  4. #3
    Administrator Ross's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,147
    Thanks
    1,018
    Thanked 1,283 Times in 769 Posts

    Re: Mysterious planet causing the whole solar system to wobble?

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Bomm View Post
    It seems kind of surprising that a 'planet' of 5 to 10 times as massive as Earth could cause all that fuss. Example, Jupiter is 318 times as massive. Something else is going on...perhaps more than one massive body. Didn't someone speculate that given that the predominate star system structure is binary would suggest that as a better probability. A dark star might be lurching around out there some where.
    It's all theory, based on solar system behaviour that doesn't make sense unless something of size is at the heart of it.

    Something has and is causing the solar system to have a 6 degree tilt.

    The projected course of this theorized planet helps explains the tilt.

    Planet Nine also orbits at an even more dramatic angle than the rest of the planets: about 30 degrees. That fact, combined with its distant location and massive size, could mean that its angular momentum puts the rest of the solar system off-kilter.
    Also, they say weight not mass...5-10 times more weight. In scientific terms mass does not always equal weight

    In common usage, the mass of an object is often referred to as its weight, though these are in fact different concepts and quantities. In scientific contexts, mass refers loosely to the amount of "matter" in an object (though "matter" may be difficult to define), whereas weight refers to the force experienced by an object due to gravity
    This is where the calculation of weight lends to the theorized course projection, causing the solar system 6 degree tilt.
    Ross
    ***Fred Coleman, Founding Partner, Beloved Friend***
    who passed away 11/10/2016
    Rest in Peace
    ***

  5. #4
    Senior Member Adam Bomm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    2,622
    Thanks
    2,169
    Thanked 1,100 Times in 810 Posts

    Re: Mysterious planet causing the whole solar system to wobble?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ross View Post
    Also, they say weight not mass...5-10 times more weight. In scientific terms mass does not always equal weight
    It's kind of a squirrelly truth. In cosmic terms it seems they would be the same...but hell, I"m no astrophysicist.

  6. #5
    Administrator Harley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    814
    Thanks
    1,693
    Thanked 1,612 Times in 660 Posts

    Re: Mysterious planet causing the whole solar system to wobble?

    They keep calling it a Planet (IE: Planet Nine). How do they know it's a Planet at all when it hasn't even been discovered yet?
    I don't know, maybe it's just the uneducated MSM calling it that. Or maybe they call it that to stir up all of the "Planet X/Nibiru" Doomsdayers.

    Like Adam asked:
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Bomm View Post
    Didn't someone speculate that given that the predominate star system structure is binary
    (Except it's not speculation, it's a fact by observation of many astronomers)

    Some have speculated that Jupiter is a "Failed Star" because it is made of the same elements (hydrogen and helium) as is the Sun, which if true would qualify our system as a Binary one. But apparently this is not the case:

    "[Jupiter] is not massive enough to have the internal pressure and temperature necessary to cause hydrogen to fuse to helium, the energy source that powers the sun and most other stars." ~ Google: Failed Star

    Some have speculated that there may be a Brown Dwarf out there which hasn't been located yet, which if true (I think) WOULD qualify our system as a Binary one:

    "Brown Dwarfs are objects which are too large to be called planets and too small to be stars. They are between 10 and 100 times more massive than Jupiter. They are not large enough to sustain Hydrogen fusion in the cores. Therefore, unlike the sun, they have no internal energy source and emit almost no visible light." ~ Google: Failed Star

    If there is a very large body out there, orbiting in a plane which is 30 degrees (or more) from the rest of the planets and emitting almost no visible light, naturally it would be extremely difficult to find. That's a lot of sky to search!

    But when they finally do find it, my prediction is it will be classified as a Brown Dwarf.

    And THAT (arguably) will make our system a Binary one, along with the majority of Binary Star Systems out there.
    Harley

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to Harley For This Useful Post:

    Adam Bomm (10-23-2016)

  8. #6
    Administrator Ross's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,147
    Thanks
    1,018
    Thanked 1,283 Times in 769 Posts

    Re: Mysterious planet causing the whole solar system to wobble?

    We’ve known that the sun’s rotational axis is tilted for about 200 years, but scientists have never understood exactly why.
    Bailey, Batygin and Brown believe a large planet lurking in the depths of the solar system is responsible and the latest addition to their theory was published this week by the Astrophysical Journal.

    “Because Planet Nine is so massive (10 times the size of Earth) and has an orbit tilted compared to the other planets, the solar system has no choice but to slowly twist out of alignment,” lead author Elizabeth Bailey said in a statement.
    Name:  4fab7618742b33035c4879ce5f5f9935.jpg
Views: 28
Size:  36.5 KB
    Diagram from Astrophysical Journal report showing Planet Nine’s projected orbit.
    Ross
    ***Fred Coleman, Founding Partner, Beloved Friend***
    who passed away 11/10/2016
    Rest in Peace
    ***

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to Ross For This Useful Post:

    Adam Bomm (10-23-2016)

  10. #7
    Administrator Ross's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,147
    Thanks
    1,018
    Thanked 1,283 Times in 769 Posts

    Re: Mysterious planet causing the whole solar system to wobble?

    This hunting for a planet due to anomalous forces in the solar system; the tilt, goes back to when Pluto was downgraded to a dwarf planet, it has now been upgraded back to planet, so I'm wondering if that is why they are calling this theorized Planet, 9, as many cosmologists still rank Pluto as a dwarf and thus not really regarded as a Planet in the true sense even though they have reinstated Pluto to planet status.

    As for a Dwarf star in a binary sense, doesn't fit the calculations for astrophysicists due to the lack of 'binary forces' which we would see clearly as well as the extra forces in a tidal pull with our large gas planets.

    The theorized planet, based on the forces calculated observed in the system, fits this well as to projected size and mass , that being 10 times that of Earth...of course there may be 'other' causing the tilt and outer planets wobble's, but they are very sure and believe we will find this planet within a few years. We will wait and see...


    also:

    Nemesis is a theoretical dwarf star thought to be a companion to our sun. The theory was postulated to explain a perceived cycle of mass extinctions in Earth's history. Scientists speculated that such a star could affect the orbit of objects in the far outer solar system, sending them on a collision course with Earth.

    Recent astronomical surveys, however, failed to find any evidence that such a star exists.

    The argument for Nemesis

    In the early 1980s, scientists noticed that extinctions on Earth seemed to fall in a cyclical pattern. Mass extinctions seem to occur more frequently every 27 million years. The long span of time caused them to turn to astronomical events for an explanation.

    In 1984, Richard Muller of the University of California Berkley suggested that a red dwarf star 1.5 light-years away could be the cause of the mass extinctions. Later theories have suggested that Nemesis could be a brown or white dwarf, or a low-mass star only a few times as massive as Jupiter. All would cast dim light, making them difficult to spot.

    Scientists speculated that Nemesis may affect the Oort cloud, which is made up of icy rocks surrounding the sun beyond the range of Pluto. Many of these chunks travel around the sun in a long-term, elliptical orbit. As they draw closer to the star, their ice begins to melt and stream behind them, making them recognizable as comets.

    If Nemesis traveled through the Oort cloud every 27 million years, some argue, it could kick extra comets out of the sphere and send them hurling toward the inner solar system — and Earth. Impact rates would increase, and mass extinctions would be more common.

    The Kuiper Belt, a disk of debris that lies inside of the solar system, also has a well-defined outer edge that could be sheared off by a companion star. Researchers have found other systems where a companion star seems to have affected the shape of the debris disks.

    The dwarf planet Sedna lends further credence in the eyes of some to the existence of a companion star for the sun. With an orbit of up to 12,000 years, the planet presents a puzzle to many. Scientists have suggested that a massive object such as a dim star could be responsible for keeping Sedna so far from the sun.

    A theory under fire

    Though some scientists find the Nemesis theory plausible, others do not. The initial cyclical nature of mass extinctions is still under discussion. Studies of craters seem to indicate that such a pattern does not exist. Other studies of fossil records suggest that mass extinctions are more likely to happen around those peaks, though extinction events occur during other epochs.

    In order to avoid significantly affecting the orbit of the planets, as well as to avoid observation, Nemesis must remain at a distance from the sun. But astronomers argue that such an orbit would be inherently unstable. Traveling so far out, Nemesis would be affected by other stars moving through the galaxy. The resulting orbit would not provide a steady kick to the Oort cloud but would be constantly changing.

    Spotting the unseen

    A solar companion may be hard to find, but it would still be visible by sensitive telescopes. Astronomers have scoured the sky using the Two Micron All Sky Survey (2MASS), which studied the sky over four years in three infrared wavelengths. The instrument discovered 173 brown dwarfs farther away than our solar system, but none near enough to be the infamous Nemesis.

    NASA's Wide-field Infrared Survey Explorer completed its 1.25-year mission in February 2011, having discovered a number of brown dwarfs within 20 light-years. Again, none of these were located near the solar system.

    The lack of discovery of a viable candidate by these two sensitive instruments led many scientists to conclude that the sun is a single star and does not have a companion.

    According to NASA's "Ask an Astrobiologist" page,

    (T)he Sun is not part of a binary star system. There has never been any evidence to suggest a companion. The idea has been disproved by several infrared sky surveys, most recently the WISE mission. If there were a brown dwarf companion, these sensitive infrared telescopes would have detected it.
    — David Morrison, Astrobiology Senior Scientist, October 17, 2012

    Last edited by Ross; 10-23-2016 at 03:57 PM.
    Ross
    ***Fred Coleman, Founding Partner, Beloved Friend***
    who passed away 11/10/2016
    Rest in Peace
    ***

  11. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Ross For This Useful Post:

    Adam Bomm (10-23-2016),Harley (10-23-2016)

  12. #8
    Administrator Harley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    814
    Thanks
    1,693
    Thanked 1,612 Times in 660 Posts

    Re: Mysterious planet causing the whole solar system to wobble?

    This is a New and Most Interesting article.

    I'm beginning to believe now that all of this news about evidence of a Ninth Planet may be what I refer to as "A Slow Leak" - About something of which has been discovered/confirmed (by modern science) at least as far back as the 70s, and maybe more - of information which has been kept from the public.

    After all this time keeping this information a secret one can only speculate on the reason WHY they would want to disclose it at this time. But I can tell you that they would NEVER-EVER admit to withholding and keeping secret such important information from the public, so therefore that's why it's being released as a 'New Discovery'.

    Whenever people holler for 'Disclosure' for years and years, and (if/when) it ever comes, this is what you can expect: Always from the Present Tense (as a 'New Discovery', etc) and very little to nothing from the Past Tense (that which has been covered up and denied).

    Anyway, please read through the article and also pay particular attention to the graphics.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    EVIDENCE CONTINUES TO MOUNT FOR NINTH PLANET

    26 OCT 2016



    Ever since its existence was first proposed, the evidence for Planet 9 continues to mount. But of course, said evidence has been entirely indirect, consisting mostly of studies that show how the orbits of Trans-Neptunian Objects (TNOs) are consistent with a large object crossing their path. However, evidence is also emerging that comes from the center of the Solar System itself.

    This latest line of evidence comes from Caltech, where researchers Elizabeth Bailey, Konstantin Batygin, and Michael E. Brown (the latter of whom were the ones who first proposed Planet 9’s existence) have published a new study linking solar obliquity to the existence of Planet 9. Essentially, they claim that the axial tilt of the Sun (6°) could be due to the gravitational influence a large planet with an extreme orbit.

    To recap, the issue of Planet was first raised in 2014 by astronomers Scott Sheppard and Chadwick Trujillo. Noting the similarities in the orbits of distant Trans-Neptunian Objects (TNOs), they postulated that a massive object was likely influencing them. This was followed in 2016 by Konstantin Batygin and Michael E. Brown of Caltech suggesting that an undiscovered planet was the culprit.



    Calling this body Planet 9, they speculated that it had a mass 10 times greater than that of Earth, and took 20,000 years to complete a single orbit of our Sun. They also speculated that its orbit was tilted relative to the other planets of our Solar System, and extremely eccentric. And little by little, examinations of other Solar bodies have shown that Planet 9 is likely out there.

    For the sake of their study – “Solar Obliquity Induced by Planet Nine“, which was recently published in the Astrophysical Journal – the research team (led by Bailey) looked to the obliquity of the Sun. As they state in their paper, the six-degree axial tilt of the Sun can only be explained in one of two ways – either as a result of an asymmetry that was present during the formation of Solar System, or because of an external source of gravity.

    To test this hypothesis, Bailey, Batygin and Brown used an analytic model to test how interactions between Planet 9 and the rest of the Solar System would effect their orbits over the course of the last 4.5 billion years. As Elizabeth Bailey, a graduate student at Caltech’s Division of Geological and Planetary Sciences and the lead author on the paper, told Universe Today via email:

    “We simulated the solar system’s motion. Planet 9 forces the solar system to slowly wobble. If Planet 9 is out there, we are in the process of wobbling right now, as we speak! But it happens very slowly, a few degrees tilt per billion years. Meanwhile the sun is not wobbling much, so it looks like the sun is tilted. A range of Planet 9 parameters cause exactly the configuration of the sun that we see today.


    [Click On Photo For Animation]

    In the end, they concluded that the Sun’s obliquity could only be explained by the influence of giant planet with an extreme orbit, one that is consistent with the characteristics attributed to Planet 9. In other words, the existence of Planet 9 offers an explanation for the Sun’s peculiar behavior, something which has remained a mystery until now.

    “Planet Nine was first hypothesized because the orbits of objects in the outer reaches of the solar system are confined in physical space,” said Bailey. “Those orbits would be all over the place unless something is currently stopping them. The only explanation so far is Planet Nine. For over 150 years, people have wondered why the sun is tilted. Personally I’d say that Planet 9 offers the first satisfying explanation. If it exists, it tilted the sun.”

    In addition, the subject of Planet 9 was also raised at the joint 48th meeting of the American Astronomical Society’s Division for Planetary Sciences and 11th European Planetary Science Congress, which took place from Oct 16th to 21st in Pasadena, California. During the course of the meeting, researchers from Arizona University shared the results of their own study, which was published back in August.

    The Arizona research team was led by Renu Malhotra, a Regents’ Professor of Planetary Sciences in the University of Arizona’s Lunar and Planetary Lab. For the sake of their study, titled “Corralling a Distant Planet with Extreme Resonant Kuiper Belt Objects“, they examined the orbital patterns of four extreme Kuiper Belt Objects (KBOs), which have the longest orbital periods of any known objects.



    According to their calculations, the presence of a massive planet – one that would complete an orbit around the Sun every 17,117 years, and at an average distance (semimajor axis) of 665 AU – would explain the orbital pattern of these four objects. These results were consistent with the estimates concerning the orbital period of Planet 9, its orbital path, and it mass.

    “We analyzed the data of these most distant Kuiper Belt objects,” Malhotra said, “and noticed something peculiar, suggesting they were in some kind of resonances with an unseen planet… Our paper provides more specific estimates for the mass and orbit that this planet would have, and, more importantly, constraints on its current position within its orbit.”

    Looks like Planet 9’s days of hiding in the outer Solar System may be numbered!

    Further Reading: arXiv, Caltech, Europlanet

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    You know, if I didn't realize that I was reading a scientific article, I could easily mistake this as an article from Nancy Lieder or Marshall Masters!

    On a more serious note though, when you watch the Animated Graphic which depicts a 'theoretical proposal' of Planet 9's orbit of the sun, you'll see that it only enters the Outer Solar System (beyond Neptune) and never enters the Inner Solar System which probably wouldn't cause a lot of problems. Unless, of course, it decided to throw some very large rocks at us!

    However, there is something of which not many have mentioned (yet) that could possibly be of much greater danger to the Inner Solar System. And that is what it might be bringing with it?

    We all should know by now that any body in space that is of sufficient size and/or mass will invariably have at least one or more satellites orbiting it (moons, planets, etc). If such a satellite or two does exist around this planet 9, and depending upon it's orbit and distance from said Planet, it could be entirely feasible for this satellite to pass through our Inner Solar System. Not a pretty thought, eh?

    It's always been very interesting to me how similar stories are told in Mythology from continent to continent and across many cultures and languages:

    Babylonians – Marduk
    Sumerian – Nibiru
    Aztec – Hercolubus
    Christian Bible – Wormwood
    The Kolbrin Bible – The Destroyer

    Is the BASIS for all these similar Myths about to meet Science?

    p.s. In case anyone missed it, go back and take another (close) look at the last picture (Artist's Impression) in the article. I did not add, or edit in any way, this graphic. It was provided by Robin Dienel of Carnegie Science.

    Is it a joke?
    Harley

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to Harley For This Useful Post:

    Ross (10-28-2016)

  14. #9
    Administrator Ross's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,147
    Thanks
    1,018
    Thanked 1,283 Times in 769 Posts

    Re: Mysterious planet causing the whole solar system to wobble?

    Good post Harley...

    Influence from a body that large could cause disturbance within the inner solar system, but that is only a possibility, and long way from 'a probable' due to it's massive orbital arc. It would have to play billiards with space bodies we have no idea of, and at a distance that is unlikely that we would find debris/asteroids within it's orbital path. Possible? indeed.

    It could have influence on a comet, one that has a massive orbital arc, one that may return once every 20,000-100,000+yrs. But that equation is huge as you can imagine.

    It, as you say, should have satellites, and that is the most probable cause of inner system disturbance if ancient stories have any truth. (the arc of a satellite/s could be within this zone) It could also feasibly drag a companion 'body' it picked up from the inner Ort cloud system on it's orbital journey, dragging debris towards it's path towards the Sun. That could then be effected by our own Gas giants as we saw with Shoemaker levy smashing into Jupiter, caught in Jupiter's gravity well.

    Very interesting indeed.

    As for the artist rendition,
    Is it a joke?
    Planet X 'name' goes back to the 20th century. legendary astronomer Percival Lowell concluded that peculiarities in the orbits of Uranus and Neptune resulted from an unseen planet and thus named X...since then all manner of wormwood/Nibiru type hype as ensued, so I can see why he drew X on the face of the rendition.
    Ross
    ***Fred Coleman, Founding Partner, Beloved Friend***
    who passed away 11/10/2016
    Rest in Peace
    ***

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to Ross For This Useful Post:

    Harley (10-28-2016)

  16. #10
    Administrator Harley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    814
    Thanks
    1,693
    Thanked 1,612 Times in 660 Posts

    Re: Mysterious planet causing the whole solar system to wobble?

    Thanks Ross!

    Here's an interesting document from the U. S. Naval Observatory, dated October 1988:
    (Can be found HERE)

    Harley

  17. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Harley For This Useful Post:

    Adam Bomm (10-29-2016),Ross (10-28-2016)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •